Grrl Power #276 – It’s not cheating, it’s “boosting”
Gauntlette finally gets a chance to do some damage after Jiggawatt cut her down during her arrival flourish, but it might not last as it looks like Sydney has figured something out about Vehemence that in hindsight is probably pretty obvious. The question is, what will she do with that information? I’m betting it’s something significant.
If I hadn’t had Hex sneak away already, panel 6 would have been Glowbug vs Hex, a fan cameo faceoff! I guess I could have put Breakpoint in there but sonics vs lightning is a poor matchup as we’ve already seen. It basically comes down to whoever gets the first shot since you can’t really block one with the other. Sonics vs. Lightning sounds like a sports match. Actually the SuperSonics was basketball team and the Tampa Bay Lightning is a hockey team (I had to google both of those) Personally, I think sports would be a lot more interesting if a hockey team played against a basketball team, or a baseball team played against a football team. Asymmetrical sides. That’s what makes for an interesting matchup I say. Protoss vs. Zerg, Zangeif vs. Ryu, rugby vs. curling!
It’s probably too late to remind people about the Amazon affiliate link as Xmas is just under a week away, but you last minuters can still use it. Unfortunately I don’t think I get a percentage of the rush shipping charges. :)
Here’s the link to the new comments highlighter for chrome which I can’t live without anymore, and the GitHub link which you can use to install on FireFox via Greasemonkey.
OMG!!! I completely forgot about Heavenly Sword!!! Doesn’t she have some sort of complete hard-on for killing demons?!? I have allowed the possibility that V is possessed by a Demon of Violence, and offered up the exorcism solution, but Heavenly Sword may have been DaveB’s solution all along, just waiting to happen, and V woke her up… HAH! Talk about giving somebody enough rope to hang themselves!
I don’t remember where Heavenly Sword has it in for demons. Plus… it’s not apparent yet that Vehemence is a demon, rather than a human who can innately use vehemic energy. Or a human who was a mix of demon and human, or something?
Perhaps he’s thinking of the many other female heroines named Heavenly Sword over the years.
Some ancient demon or Other involvement would certainly help at this point.
Last High Priest to an Elder being. Tattoo’s give him avatar status (usually the High Priest and the Avatar would be separate duties but the religion is dying out). As he gathers more vehemic energy he pleases his violent god and is granted more favor! (shit he didn’t know how to do before)
Zeph finally realizes he’s seen those symbols and the nature of the Elder and the team puts their heads together in a quick huddle to figure out the best way to trick V into disfavoring himself before his deity so he gets seriously powered down until he does 70 Hail Marthogs or whatever it is that brings him back into alignment with his chosen Power.
Though for that not to smell more than a little of convenient writing it would have helped to show Zeph considering the Tattoo’s of power earlier and suddenly getting very interested in his collection of files/books/whatever. Foreshadowing always being the key to avoiding “ass pulls” and deus ex machina. But the fact that he is the resident scholar will help a bit. Would have been better if he had been established more or again the above foreshadowing had been given.
What IS Zeph doing this whole time? As a slice of life comic I’m expecting more about these behind the scenes super support specialists.
That WOULD be interesting :) I’d like to know what Zephon’s been up to too.
First time commenting here, but this is just my thought on this.
Vehemence has so far demonstrated the following abilities:
Ability to absorb vehemic energy;
Super strength, speed, and durability, enhanced as vehemic energy increases;
Regeneration, powered by expending vehemic energy, but also generating vehemic energy in the process;
Growth, powered by expending vehemic energy;
A general understanding and use of magic, powered by expending vehemic energy;
and lastly, the ability to incite violence in a manner similar to Dabbler’s “Lust Aura.”
First, I will state that I find this to be a logical skillset for someone so clearly related to the aforementioned Malumi. It’s a frustrating skillset, but he is not terribly different from Dabbler, except that she does not appear to be able to regenerate. (I say appear to be able, because she may very well simply like her cybernetic enhancements too much to try to orchestrate a mass orgy to power a regeneration.)
That said, Vehemence has also demonstrated certain weaknesses. The first and obvious problem is the need to charge up before battle; we can bet that he won’t be appearing in the forefront of things, and that after this we should be keeping an eye out for his subtle presence in the background to hint at his involvement. This gives the readers a sort of future Easter Egg to hunt out that makes things worth reading. I don’t know if anyone followed Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, but those who did knew to keep an eye out for small tentacles in previous comics after a certain point, and found it fun to go back and look for those telltale signs of The Beast.
There are other points to consider, though. He is clever, but he isn’t all-knowing. He makes mistakes. He mistook Anvil for Maxima, and clearly was a bit concerned when he punched her. He didn’t know if he had enough power stored up to take her attack. Similarly, when he threw that haymaker at Maxima and her reaction was essentially, “Oh. That made me move. Good Job,” let us remember his reaction:
“O_O Uh. Heh heh. What the fuck.”
He knows he’s strong. He knows he’s durable. But he also knows he isn’t invincible, and he CAN be hurt.
This, I think, is his weakness. For all his durability and power, he ISN’T a penultimate powerhouse the way Maxima is. For all his knowledge and ability to assess the situation, he isn’t omniscient. I doubt very much that he knows half of what their powers actually are, and I’m certain he doesn’t know Sydney’s full powers any more than the others do. For that matter, I’m equally sure he doesn’t know the extent of Maxima’s or Dabbler’s powers. Further, I don’t think Anvil is out of the game. This makes the remaining fight a 4-on-1 where Vehemence only fully understands one fighter’s powers(Anvil), and actively misunderstands the power of one of the key fighters (Maxima).
Sydney znd Maxima actually touched on the key to beating him when she distracted him long enough to let Maxima blast of his arm, I think. Teamwork, coupled with those diminishing returns and his own misunderstanding.
Here is my theory on how to fight and beat him at this point. Essentially, they need to combo-shot him. The first step is to make him HAVE to pay attention. Dabbler has her hands full at the moment, but I’d be willing to bet this is temporary, and that rail gun is quite easily accessed and very likely kinetic. Unless I’m mistaken, Anvil would likely be able to absorb the hit from that. I’m also willing to bet that Sydney’s PewPew Orb (I am not hip… I have no right…) holds similar destructive power to the blasts that Maxima was using.
The first part is to flank. Get Dabbler and Anvil on either side. They HAVE to get him off Maxima. Dabbler shoots, Anvil makes sure that if he dodges or lets it go through him somehow, she takes the hit. She uses that force to hit him in the head, or somewhere at his center of gravity. Meanwhile, Sydney powers up her blast and lets him have it once Anvil has gotten herself back out of the way; we can probably safely assume that Maxima is all but indestructible like this, even to what Sydney can dish out.
My guess is that all of this wouldn’t kill Vehemence. But I’m similarly willing to bet that it would force him to need to stop pinning down Maxima and probably throw power into regenerating another limb. That would be when he finds out the hard way that Maxima wasn’t weakened the least bit by all that lightning, and that she can max out different attributes, like “blow this punk the hell up.”
Net result: one seriously messed up Vehemence.
I think this would essentially have him being forced to retreat. I’m sure at this point he has more than enough power to regenerate the lost limbs, but facing a now-prepared Maxima, Halo, AND Dabbler would mean he is simply out-gunned, and fully aware of it. I’m willing to bet he has some way to teleport himself out of there, and more than enough power to fuel both regenerating and escaping, and I suspect that once he is out of range, the violence-aura he put out (as Dave called it, Command: Fight with AOE), will either fade or fully disappear.
This would give us Halo as the “Big Guns,” Vehemence as a potential Easter Egg with motive to attack and reason to be cautious, and a logical end to a prolonged fight. Barring a deus ex machina plot device, I think this is also the most logical way to handle this.
Knowing our luck, though, Dave is going to throw some kind of curveball in that is completely different. This is just my take on it.
Wow. That’s actually really good. :)
Thanks.
I’d been thinking about it a lot during this whole thing, and this whole while, Vehemence seriously reminds me of a talkative Doomsday or Darkseid.
And believe me, I both loved and hated those villains. I remember chatting with Walt Simonson during his run on Orion the Hunter, and he and I talked about how the hardest part about writing someone like Darkseid was that he could literally pull powers out of his ass to get himself out of situations. You couldn’t kill someone like him without making another character that was just as broken, and then you’ve written yourself into a corner.
Let’s just be glad V here doesn’t have any access to the Anti-Life Equation…
I don’t think we’ve gotten to that point yet, though. Don’t get me wrong, this needs to end soon, but I think ol’ Dave can pull this off. And in the meantime, what a wonderful precident of fan-villains we have! It’s like the days of Muscle/Kinnikuman, only with GOOD villains!
But… but…
How am I supposed to be venomous and spiteful and mean when you make a well-reasoned, thoughtful post?! No fair!
That said, I like your solution for several reasons.
1) It isn’t gimicky- no “subdue Vehemence with the power of love” (or lust)
2) It relies on solid teamwork (I’m a little ambivalent about how well any plan relying on Sydney will work, given that she has no training, but I’d be willing to suspend my disbelief for this)
3) It casts the protagonists of the story clearly in the role of heroes (no pulling out FWTDT as a last-minute Hail Mary to save the day)
Nice work.
If it makes you feel better, you can make fun of my clearly excessive nerdliness, considering how many genres of comic I’ve managed to reference. :D
Oh, poop. Your reasonableness leaves me no alternative but to respect you. Well done, sir. Well done.
Darn… Image html not working.
Here.
An accurate summation if ever there was one. This is every bit a play on the whole “Darkest before dawn” trope where the villian has the upper hand before the hero’s kick ass with teamwork or friendship. I personally would want to see Vehemence again because he changes the battle flow on a fundamental level. It causes heroes to think in a fight instead of becoming brute force slug fests.
I also like the theory but still fear the Pew Pew orb. It’s been alluded that it has the power of a star. That’s not something you risk firing even at Maxima unless you know what you’re doing and there is no other choice.
Out of the 2000+ theories people have spouted about how this fight will end, yours is the most logical and effective method I’ve seen. It also makes the flashback relevant unlike any of the other theories.
Only problem with the theory I see here is the limits to Anvil’s power. Dave’s commentary on page 241 states that though she can absorb the kinetic energy of a bullet, its speed would be too much for her to be able to fully stop it without getting hurt. So if we apply this thought to a railgun, it can get real messy. But the theory is good in principal; we haven’t seen a whole lot of teamwork since V’s power-up, and while the fight itself might be a mere five minutes long in their time, now would be a good time for an assist.
Well, this could be countered by simply placing Achilles in front of her. He takes the shot and flies back at her full speed, she simply absorbs the impact, which would be easier given that the impact would be spread out over a full sized person instead of a small bullet.
Of course, that might tip V in on the situation, but no one said this whole plan was risk free.
Darn… There goes 1/3 of a pretty good plan!
But the overall theory still holds. He is very like bear the same level of durability, minus the new arm, that he was when Maxima decided he had too many limbs. The key here is to yield an output that outpaces his returns, and more importantly, get Max back in the game.
The key is to make the fight no longer worth the fighting. Once he decides that the situation is too much damage, not enough yield, he is going to withdraw. Maxima is already in that category for him.
Let’s add a few more queens to the board.
Oh crap… and Dave more or less added another problem to the theory. Everyone except Sydney was affected by the V wave.
I’ll give you that, and that will likely be end-game for Anvil, Harem, and any other previously standing ArcSWAT members, but he also stated that Dabbler should be able to resist it much more effectively, and that Maxima is likely not his major concern for this. I would even hazard that she is probably at the weakest point of influence, simply because he wouldn’t be concerned about flexing the aura at someone he’s actively trying to kill.
This could still put Dabbler in the game, as well as Sydney still being the ace in the hole, and once Maxima is back on her feet, Vehemence is going to simply find himself out-violenced. Diminishing returns, too much effort, time to cut and run.
Another possibility in this is that Sydney may honestly be able to tank him/out-violence him on her own. The PewPew Orb and the Shield Orb basically means she can effectively march up to him, point the sucker at his head, and say, “You have 10 seconds. I know losing a limb won’t kill you, you have more appendages, and I already dropkicked a man by his fucking TONGUE today.”
Even if V calls the bluff and she simply blows up his footing and ends up tanking some punches, he is still going to end up having to let go of Maxima, and he is still going to be looking at the business end of Dabbler, Maxima, and Halo.
End result, still a cut-and-run.
I’m also not convinced that Sydney was completely unaffected- although it’s possible her genre-savvy has given her some resistance to the full effects. As evidence for the idea that she may- emphasis on may- have been affected, I would point out the visual cues on her outfit in the last panel.
Regeneration makes him stronger because the newly formed part is stronger by nature not because it returns vehemic energy.
I’ll give you that his power set seems potentially logical from what we have been given in comic. My objections are mostly based on what DaveB has said about them in his blogs and comments.
I am thrilled that someone not only acknowledges that he certainly can be a villain in for the ARCies future but is looking forward to his continued involvement. Go you! :)
*reads along happily* Yes, of course Anvil isn’t out of the game. If these sorts had any sense of team work she would have linked up with someone to keep him from simply flinging her away. (I keep saying she should tie herself to Sydney’s Light Hook so she can keep coming back from different angles etc… )
Yes, yes, yes! Teamwork. As many including myself have wondered in the comments for many updates. Why they attack by themselves at this late point in the fight is kind of silly… Even when they attack simultaneously it seems unmindful of the others most of the time. (Maxima thought of Anvil for sure once or so… and Sydney is fairly support minded as the NOOB O.O’ )
I like the shape of your mind on this for sure.
The idea that Anvil might not be able to take the railgun has already been discussed already. Using Achilles to spread out the kinetic energy might help. But first they need to dig him up.
But if Max goes to “blow this punk the hell up.” wouldn’t she just blow his mind as threatened? Or do you assume he will already be all into defense and rabbiting as soon as he realizes she can get up. As well he should. I expect a serious attempt to kill him the next time she is free to act.
The only real problem is if he sees Dabbler set up at all he will use his crazy suite of unending spells to stop her. They could really use another agent of distraction in there. Sydney with the telepresence would be ideal if she can switch orbs fast enough to still help out with the PPO. Better keep that shield up this time. *grumble*
The only real mistake I noticed in this rundown (that no one else has mentioned) is that Anvil can’t absorb a railgun shot. I don’t remember exactly where it is unfortunately, but DaveB has already mentioned that she is unable to fully stop a bullet. While she can slow them down, they are small enough and moving fast enough that she can’t remove all the kinetic energy in the time she has when they hit her, so a railgun shot would end poorly.
On that note, I don’t know why the team wouldn’t just supercharge her by having all the high strength supers punch the crap out of her for a bit. Maybe there’s a limit to how much she can hold at one time?
Nevermind, just saw that someone beat me to it >.> whups.
A) longnight83, that was a long comment for the first comment ever.
B) For Dave, If there is a power generating force for things like Lust and Violence, I imagine there is one for other forces yes? Like say Greed, Sloth, Pride, Envy, and Gluttony? Or am I over thinking that?
You’re listing the seven deadly sins. So I guess Vehemence would be Wrath (not violence, since violence isnt one of the 7 deadly sins – ie, wrath means rage, not violence)?
Yes, I meant wrath and for the love of me couldn’t think of it. but I think you get my point. so my question still stands though, is there a force for the others?
And Ob, she gains powers from physical reactions. she said so when halo was meeting in the ball room. or around that area.
I think it said Dabbler gains juice from Lust and Sex. So its like they gain energy from a type of physical act like sex(even without brains behind it) AND from a being wanting it to happen like lust.
So I guess going with that he would be powered by Wrath and Violence. That works pretty good actually.
Anyone else having troubke accessing the webcomic or just me?
Just you
No, me as well.
Chrome keeps falling over when loading the comic. IE did the same thing earlier (and when it did work, none of the avatar pictures showed up).
Firefox seems to be the most compatible (but the machine I’m testing on right now cannot get a connection at all!).
… and now Chrome is giving a security warning:
“This page includes script from unauthenticated sources”.
DaveB might want to check this.
Going to ask a question that has nothing to do with Vehemence (probably to many people’s relief).
Anyone wonder how the shield affects the ground? Because you can see when Sydney is in the air, it’s a perfect sphere or ovoid, but when she’s on the ground, it seems to be flat at the bottom (unless it’s just digging through the ground?) Is there an exception for the shield when it comes to surface tension, like with Kitty Pryde when she goes intangible so she doesnt fall into the center of the earth? I ask because I know that DaveB has said that the shield will not ‘cut off’ a person who’s between the shield – it will just expand to envelope that person as well. Does that only work on living beings/organic matter, or is that how it is for everything?
ie, if Sydney tried to put her shield around half of a car, with her in the center still, would it automatically envelop the entire car, or would it make the car get cut in half? If the former, how is the shield going through the ground? (or alternatively, does the shield just flatten around the ground? I figured it did not do that because of how Shadow Boxer came up through the floor while the shield was up, meaning the shield went through the ground (possibly?)
Just my guess here, but my answer is that the force field goes through non-living things, but lacks an actual physical mass. Sort of like an energy current. Meaning as long as the whole item can be enveloped, it would bring the item with it. The ground, even things like tiles, floors, and the like, tend to be comprised of many homogenous parts. Meaning that the shield would likely emanate into the ground fairly harmlessly, and if the ground is, for example, sand or dirt (as seen in the tank and sand “in places” incident), it would bring that with it if she is forcibly removed, but would otherwise adjust itself relatively harmlessly along what she is traveling over.
she probably does murder on the water flow of the plumbing below her, though. Intact pipes with an inexplicable water build-up behind her shield…
“Sand in Places” was the result of activating the shield in the midst of the explosion debris and catching a whole lot of it in there with her. That aside, the shield is the result of highly advanced tech/magic with a thought based interface (based on the PewPew requiring a “disengage safety” to activate), so why would it be a surprise that the default setting is “safe” shield creation. This has been my argument all along that she could set the shield up around something else if she knew how to change the “center point” setting, just like she found the “embiggener” setting. I think the default is set to filter out any matter/energy other than light and soundwaves and filters those down to safe levels. The default mode is probably perfectly “safe” in space. (On a side note, what if one of the unknown is a “life support” module that she can activate to instantly refresh her oxy needs?) There is probably an “earth mover” setting to have it dig down into the ground, a “shape” setting to make it less spherical (a natural shape for deflecting all incoming attacks) but a series of concave dimples would prevent scatter and may even reflect attacks back at the enemy… Lots of stuff to explore with Leon –who is thus far the only team member on the Anti-list.
Then of course one of the mystery orbs might be something like “Phase shifting” or “Intangibility”
I don’t think that it goes through non-living things though, or it would make a pretty poor shield. It seems to prevent debris and explosions from passing through, after all. There just seems to be some sort of exception to the ground which I can’t figure out.
Shadow was already inside the shield when it went up. He had already hit her in fact.
I think Dave has only done some basic thinking on the nature of the shield. All I know of is this quote from him on the Hyperactivity Bonus vs. Backstab page’s author blog.
“Apparently there was enough room between the wall and the table for a shield that large. Good thing it either automatically resets to a smaller default size or Sydney thought to reset it herself after the demonstration, where if you remember the shield was large enough to totally destroy that room if it went up in there. Her shield does form centered on her, large enough to encompass her, but will adjust itself up or down a bit not to slice off anything near her, which is why Shadow Boxer there didn’t get a haircut when her shield went up. That may be a yet undiscovered option though.”
So right now we are assuming it alters size and shape to avoid slicing stuff when formed, including becoming flat on the bottom to avoid slicing the earth, (wonder if that weakens it? Bet its stronger when its formed more perfectly round like in flight ) but then maintains that shape in the face of further encroachments I guess.
Dave has probably given this a lot more thought since all the repeated theories involving Sydney’s shield (can’t really blame them since it has casually stood up to almost everything thrown at it. Does Sydney get some kind of warning feedback when her orbs projections are in trouble?) but I don’t remember seeing any of those thoughts of his in print since the above quote.
Okay but even with Shadow already in the shield when it went up, what happened to the floor? Is the shield stopping at the floor or going through it? And if it’s going through it, why isnt it cutting through the floor?
As I said in my reply we, the other commenters and I, have been assuming it deforms to fit things it can’t avoid by shrinking or growing a little and therefore becomes flat at ground level and somehow magically moves along with her while under her but she can still walk. Some kind of energy hamster ball? But these are all fan assumptions. Unless I’ve missed something (possible I guess) there has been no more official word from Dave since the quote in my original reply.
Yeah, that’s currently my theory as well, Just interested in the mechanics of it. Maybe it’ll be explained in a future Dabbler’s science corner thing…
Another possibility occurred to me when someone mentioned the hamster ball. It may, in fact, be JUST like a hamster ball once it finishes forming. She could very well simply be walking along the bottom of the ball, and the ball itself simply moves in her direction rather than rolling.
Force fields are always an interesting conundrum in comics and the like. In theory, they seem pretty simple and easy to figure, but in practice there are many nuances that need to be sorted out. One concept example here is that the force fields could be malleable by the creator. She could very well be able to form them, eventually, into domes, shields, walls, and other shapes. It is also possible that they are already doing this without her conscious control.
Someone mentioned a safe mode. It seems that the current default for the shield is “Spherical Shell. Center on master. Maintain short distance. Destroy nothing. Conform to ground level. Block ALL OF THE THINGS.” These are all things that may be subject to change; we already know “Maintain short distance” is.
Well, in the sprit of mad over-analysis, here is my take on the “Shield Question”.
Conjecture 1: The shield intersects the ground.
Against this one, I begin with the observation that Halo is able to walk around with the shield up (which she must have been doing during the Battle Royale before they defeated FWTDT). If the impermeable (to solid matter) shield formed in the ground or floor she would be rooted to the spot.
Secondly, the shield would cut a chunk out of the substrate. This may or may not be noticed on solid ground (eg. the parking lot), but we would definitely notice the effect when she brought up the shield in the Ballroom.
Conjecture 2: The shield closes under Halo’s feet, conforming to the ground.
This is a bit harder. Firstly, note that the shield shows its “stress” pattern whenever it is touched (even by Tubey’s packing foam). There is no sign of stress around Sydney’s feet whenever you see the base of the shield, and she applies more force than the foam. There would also have been a similar sign when she was pretending to pat the ground for her glasses near Shadow Boxer.
Secondly, when the whole shield was stressed by the Big Bada-boom, the pattern stopped abruptly where the force field met the ground.
Conjecture 3: The shield terminates where it meets the ground.
All this one requires is a bit of “intelligence” from the Orb, which seems entirely plausible. It only requires the edge to conform to the ground.
On balance, my money’s on number 3.
My theory on the shield is it’s reactive and blocks anything that would hurt her and prevents it from passing through. (So while it lets light through it probably blocks UV rays and other harmful radiation… The ground that she’s walking on is harmless so that can pass through…. People who mean to hurt her can’t pass through, people that would accidentally hurt her can’t pass through.(Simply put, if it can hurt her it isn’t gonna pass through the shield. I’d say the best way to fully test this would be with a nerf gun, though the shield might still block a nerf dart because of the risk of eye injury…)
While you may be correct in that, I will admit that a power that was that impenetrable and adaptable would make me as irritated with her as I am with Vehemence. I’m hoping that, eventually, DaveB will give us some explanation of what limitations the shield actually has.
I actually felt the lack of air permeation was a good flaw for the shield. It means she can’t permanently ‘turtle’ up. Also the shield has to be around her, which makes it much more purely defensive, and gives it no real offensive capabilities. That’s already two more things that I can say vs saying ANYTHING good about Vehemence.
If its that impenetrable and that adaptable I think the trade off should be that the two “unknown orbs” are in fact the Power Source/Converter Orb and the Artificial Intelligence Orb. This I believe has been suggested in piecemeal in the past comments. So no more powers because the existing powers’ extreme adaptability, ability to upgrade and the ability to be linked together later with upgrades to form a combined power is all the extra powers she will ever need for the rest of the comic. The two remaining orbs should be used up maintaining that power and versatility.
With the added bonus that she may gain a voice in her head later on from the A.I.
Probably won’t go down that way though.
If the shield terminates when it hits the ground then does that mean that the ground was somehow able to block Harem? She teleports inside buildings through similar thicknesses of solids after all.
After all is said an done the shield is probably full of loop holes that Dave hasn’t considered until they show up in the comments. I just got that feeling from his comments about it way back. He might be holding back now because we haven’t adequately solved it for him yet.
Since the force field is also able to prevent air from getting through, energy from getting through, and mental attacks from getting through, it’s not surprising that teleportation can’t get through also (although that was a negative when Shadow Boxer was already inside the shield)
In this case I was referring to the theory that the shield terminates at the ground in which case its not the shield but the ground that stopped Harem from teleporting which is odd since she teleports through buildings and such…
Replies died out down below so I was just gonna say I think a powerful shield is a great offensive weapon if you can move at speed. She’s a giant super powerful version of The Bowler from Mystery Men.
The non permeable thing is something he sort of came up with after the shield had already been in use so that alone shows you how little planning this particular aspect got. I don’t blame him. A shield seems like such a simple thing until you have to write about one in combat in a comic with a bunch of nit picky fans! ^_^’
Some other might have mentioned this already but… is it just me or is Veh´s power tattoos going through the the light spectrum in reverse as he powers up? When we first saw him they were white (Ultra violet), when he woke up the KO´s they vere a shining yellow, now they seem to be going towards orange.
There has been other colors and tints, but from what i can remember they all seemed to be going with the reverse color spectrum thing.
That would mean he “just” has orange and red left…. Unless he goes into Infra red and the tattoos goes all black.
(This little speculation brought to you by `Paranoia: the roleplaying game´. The Computer is your friend.)
Yeah I remember somebody saying this before. I think he mentioned more colors. I don’t see as many tints as everyone else though. I think the extra ones are just tricks of the lighting, temporary power flux (like in old Tron) and what have you.
Some observations form the bleacher seats.
From the point of view of a character in story prior to the start of the fight Sydney was a highly excitable scatterbrain who has somehow gained powers from a set of unknown artifacts.
The point of this story arc is to show Sydney as a capable superhero and a valuable asset to the team and establish the credibility of the super villain threat. So far the villain threat has been shown to be greater than believed through the number of villains involved and Sydney has proven to be a valuable addition to the team. What has not been finalized is Sydney being accepted by the most powerful super in the story universe, a highly ranked combat veteran who’s approach to combat is to keep hitting it with a bigger hammer. By introducing a villain (loath him if you wish) who has a power set that negates the bigger hammer approach our esteemed host has set up a situation for a Sydney to win Max’s trust and acceptance.
As regards to the story pacing the only change I would recommend is to make the finally of the demonstration the end of chapter 2 and start chapter 3 at the restaurant.
+100
I admit that I do loathe Vehemence, but…
While Sydney is, perhaps, the main protagonist, she’s far from the only protagonist. While I don’t object to a storyline building her up- indeed, I think most storylines really need to- doing so at the expense of the other protagonists is probably a bad idea. Furthermore, doing so in such a way that she is left no further room for growth is also very dangerous, as it inherently limits the lifespan of the comic.
That said, I actually agree that it’s not a bad thing to require Vehemence’s defeat to require more than just violence, and I’m a big fan of finding a way to allow teamwork to solve a seemingly insoluble problem. I’m not certain that, at this point, any of the methods suggested are plausible, though- especially since, despite protests to the contrary, I have seen no signs that Vehemence is weakening and many, many signs that he is just getting more powerful (please note: not having enough strength to flat out kill Maxima in full-defense mode is not a sign of weakening; it is a sign of having insufficient strength for that particular goal. His own rhetoric and actions imply that he is, in fact, getting stronger by awakening combatants, as their combined vehemic energy further fuels him.)
I will continue to wait and see… and hope that I can find a reason to go back to really liking the comic, as opposed to watching out of a sense of morbid fascination.
If he had the power to flat out kill Maxima while she’s in full defense mode he would have done it by now… (I don’t think Maxima’s going to full defense is because she needs it… I think she’s probably just stalling while he wastes energy on an attempt to kill her. Given his actions(Starting up more violence to boost his mana pool seems to support that he doesn’t have enough juice to deal a fatal blow to Maxima at this time…)
Also he doesn’t know how her powers work.(He probably assumed lightning drains her powers because she shifted to the defense stat and he felt her become physically weaker and assumed his lightning attack was the cause… Again to reiterate, he doesn’t know that she can min-max on the fly and probably just assumed that the lightning caused her power level to decrease, when in reality she’s just as strong as before, she just min maxed everything into defense and not necessarily because she needed it, but probably also because that’s her least obvious stat. He probably still thinks her damage resistance is where it was before she maxed it out because as it was pointed out before, he doesn’t know her powers or how they work.)
TLDR: He’s underestimated Maxima’s maximum defense and thinks that he can kill her with his current attack if he keeps it up.(Ha pun!) So at this point I figure he’s gonna keep wasting energy on what he’s trying to do now up until something drastic happens to force him to retreat.. (Maybe he looses another arm, or perhaps a leg thus setting up an exchange where he compares himself to “Edward Elric” and Sydney snarks that he’s more like “Edward Cullen”, maybe he ends up having to tank a PPO blast after that which uses up the rest of his reserve power forcing him to retreat because there isn’t enough violence to recharge the kind of defence needed to tank anymore damage from the heroes who are now focused on HIM.)
He would also be at a disadvantage after this simply due to his new-found fame, his enemies now know his power-set(Thus they can be better prepared next time.) and this is of course assuming he doesn’t end up stuck in a tailor made prison in Antarctica or space or someplace suitably remote and inhospitable far away from anything violent… With full body restraints to prevent him from generating his own violence.(If his cell is in space even if he manages to break out, he’s still in space, so unless he’s somehow gained enough power to tank re-entry odds of him being able to do much damage is still mitigated…
I think we’re fundamentally in agreement here. Vehemence has not actually shown any real weakness; he has shown a lack of necessary power, which is not the same. Now, his misunderstanding of Maxima’s actual mechanics is not a weakness; if theory, increasing the output of his energy attack could kill her just as dead as increasing his physical power- at least as far as we know.
A minor thing has occurred to me concerning Harem. She has 5 separate brains and can share conscious thought and reactions among all 5 bodies (pain etch). She (white hair) can apparently hide some thoughts form the other Harem’s or else the whole double agent thing would be known by all 5.–this assumes she isn’t really a double agent through and through. So here in this combat she un-teleported a couple bodies to boost the remaining body’s abilities. Would that mean there is a chance that the merge could shake free a few secrets the white haired one is keeping from the rest,
And then there is the dah-dah-dah moment when it is revealed that [spoiler] white haired Harem (or even another body she doesn’t realize has spawned off) is the masked figure back in the villain challenge cameo (the mask with the shark on it).[spoiler]
Damn Yu html tags!
Where did you get the idea that the other four bodies didn’t know what the white haired one was up to? Harem is one person with up to five bodies, who also likes all kinds of new and unusual experiences, which leads her to play double and probably triple agent as well. Given Deus’ comment that he was counting on her being a triple agent it is likely that not only all of Harem but Max and General Faulk know exactly what went on.
Hmm the Note says spoiler is [spoiler] is it like this or what?
Meh. This is why You don/t send a dBA to do lite html tags….. ;)
You left the “/” out of the “end spoiler” tag, is all.
This is a test of your spoiler system. This is only a test.
Spoiler nuggets
I think the idiot spellcheck adjusted the tag…
And yes it apparently did it again. Shield Orb Embiggener FTW
IT CAN LEARN
Some have postulated that V may become a reoccurring villain, might I ask how that could work?
After all even if he does get away this time, next time Max is going to START with blowing his head into tiny bits rather than let him power up.
Well, I can’t guarantee this is how it’s going to go, but my logic on this is that, barring something draining out his accumulated energy, he’s got enough magical power to cast pretty much any non-doomsday spell in his “spellbook.” We already know that the artist/writer is a DnD fan, so we can safely bet that there are spells for teleportation. My guess is that, whatever else happens, Vehemence is not planning on sticking around when his plans go pop. I’m quite sure he’s keeping enough mana untapped to power a quick and decisive exit for himself should things go badly.
As for the recurring villain part, I actually have some high hopes here. I see him as a potential Easter Egg on future pages. A hat-shaped shadow, a bit of glowing tattoo in that recognizable shape, a smug grin in a crowd; all of it just waiting for the audience to spot it as the main action and dialogue takes place in the front and center. Vehemence has a lot of potential as an in-the-background force. He can easily provide plans, push for a bit more aggression AND restraint, and then just hang back and let people do their business, providing just a tiny bit of push and pull from behind the scenes to keep the action going… until his next big reveal.
Plus, he’s proving to be shrewd enough, clever enough, and quick enough to make sure that any reveal of him is going to be met with “Okay, stop everything. VEHEMENCE is here.” We can also be sure that him showing up isn’t going to be part of some kind of doomsday, destroy the world cliche that has regrettably dominated so many villains. He’s in it purely because he just enjoys a good snack, and the dead taste terrible to him. Heck, he may even just pop in briefly for a snack at the end of a major encounter to claim credit, kick Achilles into something explosive and distracting, make a few playful quips with Halo, and then saunter out in the ensuing chaos while ArcSWAT focuses on preventing casualties.
If his regeneration power doesn’t only work when he’s powered up, problem solved. Vehemence isn’t a god-mode villain. He can’t do much of anything until he’s significantly powered up, but if you want a recurring villain then someone who will have to die of old age is a good place to start. I imagine V, being a thinking man, has never been so foolish as to check if he’s invincible. But imagine this scene:
Sydney, realizing the battle has gone sideways and that Maxima might be dying (although we know she’s not), decides to use the PewPew orb on V. V uses Maxima’s body as a shield trying to survive it, and Maxima grins at him as the energy goes around her and “obliterates” V. But then V’s whole body regenerates into a metal form. V realizes he doesn’t need to kill Maxima to save his own life, and he learns the limits of his own power (which is my guess as to why he set this whole thing up to start with) so he has no reason to keep fighting. His powers seem to be that of creation — new growth, new arm, new pants. I’d love to see him plant Maxima in the asphalt to buy himself time to make a getaway, make a motorcycle, and get out of there. His last words might be “Well, looks like nobody died. What do you think the odds are on that?” and Maxima gets a wink before he runs for it.
The next time V appears it’s not as a villain, but in some helpful role that makes the team wonder who he really is and if killing him (if it’s even possible) is the pragmatic thing to do.
I certainly would not sue if you did exactly that with the story, but at least I hope it gets your brain gears turning on how V could be in the story without being a problematic character. He’s weaker than Maxima and she’s not problematic. It’s just the combination of nigh-unbeatable and bad guy that’s problematic, because you are telling a super-team story in which almost everyone on the team would get sidelined for good by such a villain. V as bad guy is more of a “Maxima and Sydney are the whole team” type of story.
Ugh. I don’t like anything you’ve said in that second paragraph at all.
Dunno. I think a Kamen Rider Mecha V sounds brilliant. All he needs are bug eyes and a scarf.
I have no idea how Vehemence can be a recurring villain that won’t get killed 5 seconds into his next appearance if Maxima is within the same hemisphere as he is. Especially since he’s basically spelled out that the only way he can be beaten is if she kills him before he gets this powerful
I have to ask, as you’re our resident eloquent cynic (a role I usually fulfill, so this this actually quite refreshing), what’s your opinion on my idea for his survival and recurrence?
For his survival, that’s not difficult, since he’s right now winning and countering anything ANYONE throws at him. For his not winning in a way that’s satisfying for a superhero comic about ‘grrl power’ – that’s harder. Other than Sydney or Maxima blasting him and him SOMEHOW surviving but getting blasted away, or them Death Toll somehow incapacitating him and for some reason that’s beyond me, they imprison him instead of Maxima killing him (upon which point he’ll promptly escape in about 3 seconds)
For him being a good recurring villain? I see NOTHING to make him a good recurring villain. Maxima is a pragmatic tactical person. Any future occurence of Vehemence should logically result in her killing him within the first 5 seconds, or sending him into orbit THEN killing him before he can power up too much.
I can easily see how he could be a recurring villain; I just don’t think it’s a good idea. I admit that I’m biased because I hate the character so strongly that I have to stifle my gag reflex every time I see him, but I doubt I’m the only person who thinks that he’s the weak link in an otherwise brilliant story.
You’re not alone. I’m totally with you on that as are a bunch of othe people who love the comic, but just -hate- this guy.
I’m looking forward to that demon alien creature from Dabbler’s past, the guy with the wrapped face, and the mysterious group, but all that seems to just be sullied by the fact that ‘if they’re EACH’ major threats who can beat down everyone in Archon combined plus Maxima with a ridiculously one-sided fight full of deus ex machina and plot armor, then those future threats are going to look a lot less impressive and a lot more annoying. Especially considering Vehemence has done all this less than 12 hours after Archon even became known to the world.
… And now V has just made the worst mistake possible – he’s gotten Sydney mad.
I wonder… I just re-read the entire comic and found a hint to a non-violent solution to Vehemence that could probably work…
There is only one thing it depends on:
Does Syneys shield have to put her on the center?
If not, then there is your solution. Put Vehemence under the shield and keep him there, without anyone else. This isn’t attacking, so hopefully it doesn’t add to his energy. The shield is almost all powerfull (it could stop Maxima’s attacks) so it’s probably impossible for V to punch his way out of it. Or teleport or something like that, if that somehow belongs to his powers. This way he can attack no-one, and is for a short time taken down.
And now to finish him: just let him stay there. Remember how Sydney earlier in the fight had to drop her shield to get some oxygen? So if we let V under the shield, he runs out of oxygen to. Or if he somehow breaths something else because he’s alien or something (you never know) then he runs out of that.
The problem is, I have no idea if Sydney can shield something else then herself. I haven’t seen her doing that, but you never know.
If not, well, this is all I got XD
PS: Sorry if someone else posted this already or if the shield question was answared impossible somewhere else. I didn’s steal your theorie! I tought it up myself, I swear! I’m sorry I didn’t get my fact straight!
This “idea” (and variants thereof) has only come up in the Discussion section 9,362,417 times so far, and the answer remains the same for all of them.
At this stage (subject to possible future upgrades), Sydney can ONLY put up the shield with her in the middle.
Well, shame on me then…
I’m sorry that I annoyed everone with a not so well tough solution.
You’re forgiven. ;)
Someone sent me an email about the “One More Day” comment here. Wow. Just… wow.
So let me start off by apologizing to Dave. Yes, that was uncalled for, and yes, it was over the line. I am sorry for the crack.
I agree with other posters that this is one of the best, if not the best, super-hero themed web-comics of there, both in terms of art style and storytelling. I have commented on other pages to that effect, as well as any criticism I may have had. However, the comic seem to me to have become snared in what feels like an interminable battle against an unstoppable foe. While the “unstoppable foe” part in and of itself isn’t a bad thing, having V right out of the gate strikes me as poor pacing in that the team has failed to establish themselves as anything more than an implied power. But this is nothing that other posters haven’t voiced, and far better than I will.
I have gotten extreme fatigue in watching week after week go by with no discernible movement in plot or in characters. The additional drawback of this is it’s all a flashback. We know V won’t kill Max or Syd. We know this will all be resolved, and ARCSwat will still be top dogs.
So, that being said, I’ll come back once this battle is finally concluded, and the comic is once more back on the course it started on nearly a year ago.
Again, I apologize for the comment before. It was uncalled for.
Hey, don’t sweat it. You were frustrated. Publicly apologizing talks a bit of guts and a bit of character. As Maxima would say:
Level up?
No worries. It has gotten bogged down a little and while I think it would read better in a single sitting, the comic has spent too much time away from the core of what I wanted it to be, which is extraordinary person in the (mostly) ordinary situation. This will almost definitely be the biggest fight I ever do in the comic so maybe it was weird putting it up front.
Oh man he totally just gave them all D&D style Insanity.
Except some of them seem to have rolled twice. Attack nearest target, plus babble nonsense!
I haven’t gone through the comments much to see if anyone’s commented on it, but are there any theories about the guy who goes by ‘Deus’, with an ‘X’ mark on his head, working at a place called ‘Machina’?
He’s about the only person in the comic who I wouldnt mind seeing with deus ex machina happen because his name so heavily foreshadows that. It would be humorous.
I just realized a potential non-violent solution to V that Sydney almost certainly knows.
She could offer him a fruit pie.
but only if she put on a Spider-man costume, or possibly a Capt. America one
TWC Fouled U beyond all recognition.
I’m surprised anyone is getting any votes. I’ve been trying to contact TWC via their link for 2 months maybe, no reply. It says I can vote in the upper left corner (from my voting page links) and when I vote, it says “Your vote or a vote from a similar network address has already been logged for today, thank you. You can vote again in 16 hours”
A few comics I vote for only register votes every other day, FUBAR. Does anyone respond to you?
Halo: Hey guys, that one there is the one who lured all of you into a trap, and now he is laughing at how you are working even more into his plans.
Vehemence: Oh ****…