Grrl Power #286 – Aaaand scene
I’d liked to have one more row of panels showing Vehemence slumping to the ground, reverting back to his original size, his armored arm clanking off in strips, showing a regular arm underneath, but yes, the fight is finally over. It feels slightly anti-climactic to me in some ways, but really, the only viable options at this point given their resources were to kill him or talk him down.
I’ll have to do a port mortem on the fight, sit down and reread the whole thing and see where I could have edited it. I certainly didn’t intend for it to last 86 pages. (Actually 107 pages if you count all the double sized pages.) I probably should have cut the Death Toll stuff as it didn’t add anything to the fight that didn’t happen again on a larger scale with Vehemence, and there’s probably a few more things I could have taken out or saved for later to lower the page count, but besides it running longer than I would have liked, I think it went mostly ok, especially seeing how it was my first fight. (And will probably be the only one for a while.) I’ll be glad to get back to the slice of life stuff though, which is really what the bulk of the comic is supposed to be about.
Edit: To clarify: I didn’t mean to imply that I was going to go in and cut pages out of the comic, just that I’d be a little more critical about future pages and make sure they really contribute something, especially if a scene is taking a while to get through. The Death Toll pages did add stuff, mostly humor and as some have pointed out, it showed the team that Sydney’s genre savvy has some value to the team.
This is probably the last double page I do for a while (watch me make a liar out of myself in the next 10 pages :P ) Originally the double pages were intended to let me blow the panels up so I could to better looking action, but mostly what happened was the double pages wound up having 12-18 panels which meant I was really doing 3 pages a week and just posting two of them at once. Sure I like getting more comic out there for everyone, the problem is when I do 3 pages a week, it’s 12-13 hours a day, 7 days a week of drawing, and that leaves me time for little else. I’m sure many of you have noticed the vote incentive has gotten a bit stale for instance, or that my “What I’m Reading” widget has been on the same book for the last 2 months. I’d like to get back to doing more peripheral stuff like the vote incentives, cause they let me expand the world outside of just linear story telling, and the occasional piece of fan art or guest comic would be nice as well. I’ll also need some time to run back through and got to my big list of fixes, mostly art stuff like Maxima’s sudden change in rank, before I can put the book together and set up a kickstarter for that.
Here’s the link to the new comments highlighter for chrome, and the GitHub link which you can use to install on FireFox via Greasemonkey.
I… can’t look away from them.
Damn your hypnotic powers!
…
ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOBOOBS!
ALL HAIL HYPNOTOA-I-MEAN-BOOBS.
I found Dabbler’s civilian disguise.
https://alexgreen987.deviantart.com/art/Hypnoboobs-GIF-464731436
It got 404’d.
I rather like how this fight ended, it feels fitting to me after all that has happened in this fight, especially the part with Vehemence.
For me it feels fitting as vehemence was a ‘good’ bad guy, his ability to make rational conversation whilst fighting was part of his charm.
I think he will make a great frienemy to the team.
Good work, loving the story, and the fight may have felt long to you, but it felt just long enough to tell it’s story
if v’s auto healing ability can take care of his neck wound while he’s asleep might it in addition also erode and eventually heal other maladies, namely dabbler’s sleep spell?
Probably. But how long will he retain the combat power.
I’ve always though of V as a capacitor. He charges up really high, but he can’t hold the charge indefinitely. Eventually, he will just naturally settle down to his base power level.
You’ve obviously never taken apart an old camera and gotten the shit shocked out of you, TWICE, from an old flash capacitor. That’s after supposedly discarging it on a screwdriver, too. Believe me, capacitors can hold a charge for a long time if they’re of decent quality.
Capacitance aside powers like his aren’t usually mechanical in nature. They’re usually more like a clenched fist. When he looses consciousness I expect he’ll lose his hold on the power and it will fade/drain away. He may retain the size increase though. That might be a permanent side effect of the level of power he took in.
I’m guessing the fight was the kind of thing that took less than half an A4 side to plan out, and then it expanded considerably in the actual writing and drawing.
It was still an epic fight, worthy of one of those big blockbuster superhero movies they make these days. I’m looking forward to whatever’s coming next, but this was certainly a good way to introduce the team.
Yea, kinda like when you have to write a story to present speaking.
You write several pages of text, and when you try it, that turns out to be less than a minute of talking.
For anybody who doesn’t know what an A4 is, it’s a sheet of paper roughly equivalent to an 8×10 sheet of paper. Not exactly an 8×10 but it’s around the same size. It’s a British thing, where the ratio of length to width is the square root of 2, which means if you cut the paper in half cross wise, you get two sheets the next size sheet down, which is a benefit we don’t have here in the US.
It’s actually 8.5″ by 11″ (Letter size), though I just discovered a 8″ by 10.5″ (Government-Letter).
There also exists the Ledger/Tabloid size which is 17″ by 11″ (or 11 by 17) which is two Letter pages. The “Half-Letter” paper also exists (8.5 by 5.5).
The American National Standards Institute (ANSI) also created standard paper sizes, starting at 8.5×11 for the “ANSI A”/Letter size and then doubling the size for each one after it (ANSI B: 11 × 17; ANSI C: 17 × 22; ANSI D: 22 × 34; ANSI E; 34 × 44)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size#North_American_paper_sizes
This post got a lot more detailed then I intended as I started writing it.
Oh, and a A4 is actually 8.27 in × 11.7 in, slightly longer and slightly slimmer than a Letter page.
A4 isn’t an international thing? It’s funny, but despite having no evidence to support it I assumed it was. The things you learn online…
But yes, I just meant half of a standard piece of paper. A nice short description.
Aye, here in the States you basically have 2 sizes of commonly used paper, 8.5″ x 11″ (commonly referred to as eight and a half by eleven) and Legal, which is 8.5″ x 14″.
That entirely depends on your field of study. I’ve never used 8.5×14, outside my marriage licence perhaps, but due to where I work I’m handling hundreds of pages of 11×17 almost daily. I’ve also used C up to E size paper, 34×44 or something, for certain projects (i.e. model size floor plans and Air Conditioning layouts).
tl;dr version: 8.5×14 might be more common in legal matters, but 11×17 is most common in construction and design.
A4 is international but like most things the USA is a “special” case
They only do it for the LOLs. “What, you were using inches, when we were using centimetres? No wonder the space ship crashed! Doh!”
Heh. My car does it for LOLs (its own, not mine).
I’ve been having intermittent battery trouble, recently, and I had an issue where, apparently, there was a power loss to the computer. At any rate, when I got on the road and accelerated up to 70 on the speedometer, I was confused as to why everybody was passing me and giving me dirty, dirty looks. I mean, I knew everything felt slow, but I couldn’t quite figure out why… until I realized that my speedometer had switched from MPH to kMPH…
I had a car that was originally waaay up north from me. It did that if it lost power, defaulting to KPH –it was Canadian eh? Long way from home cus I am Floridian.
(Not ‘Merican. We quietly seceded after the “hanging Chad” thing)
Once on a long family road trip we were taking turns driving. When it was my sister’s turn to drive I was riding ‘shotgun’ (another American term). On a long straight section I was beginning to get bored and under the pretense of changing the radio I also swapped the speedometer from mph to kph. After a few seconds I said ‘Hey, watch your speed.’ She looked down and the speedometer read ‘108’. After enjoying the sudden look of panic on her face for a few moments I explained what I did.
I think ‘riding shotgun’ has been subsumed into world-wide English, thanks to Hollywood. It is certainly common in England and South Africa. I would be surprised if our Antipodean friends said differently. Mind you the BBC has helped propagate English turns of phrase, in a similar way.
We do not tend to notice that so much, within the English-speaking countries. As we share so much culture via those, and other, sources. But where it can be positively funny is if watching Bollywood movies, or films from certain other regions.
In my case, I have been seeing a number of south-east Asian movies. I have a liking for horrors, and their cultural viewpoints can make for some very good ones (although you do have to sift through the dross, admittedly).
These films will be in their native language, but subtitled in English. So it can be either jarringly disconcerting or hilariously funny, when English phrases are smattered throughout the film “jolly good time”, “lets partay”, “raincheck, ok?”
Many words can migrate to many different languages, so it is nothing new. But the extent of English (be it American flavoured or otherwise) cropping up, in completely unrelated languages, is an interesting sign of the times.
My brother had an experience like that at a baseball game.
A couple of guys behind him were talking in German way too fast for him to follow and then one of them stops and says “That’s life” and then went back to speaking swiftly in German.
I have no idea what does ‘riding shotgun’ means, but my first thought was you were driving drunk. Also calling shotgun is a mystery for me.
“Riding shotgun” means riding in the passenger side front seat. It comes from the days of the US westward expansion, when much of the travel between towns was done by stage coach. The driver had a guard armed with a shotgun sitting beside him in case the coach was attacked.
A4 is an internation stadard paper size (from ISO 216), so it’s actually a “rest of the world” thing and the USA stands alone using archaic (and perhaps ironically) English Imperial paper sizes.
“Booya” made me laugh a lot.
The mixture of good art and silliness has me enjoying the comic. I also enjoy the explanations and how you’re learning as you go.
Don’t be to hard on yourself Dave. Including Death Toll along with Vehemence in this first fight has given Sidney the opportunity to prove her worth to the team when it comes to tactics alone. Sidney’s knowledge of superpowers vital to the teams victory by figuring out how to beat both these opponents where the rest of the team was having their (ample) behinds handed to them. Once could be a fluke/luck, twice shows serious skill in this case.
Even without her own powers, Sidney was clearly the (somewhat scattered) brain of the team and she deserves some serious props from the others.
All in all, not bad for a first day at the job.
Personally, I’d like to see that
Damn it, formated everything wrong, and now it looks weird and agro, not what I was going for. Is there a way to edit comments?
Nope, no edit options unfortunatly
[Edited]
Sorry, I deleted this comment to keep the secret editing function secret.
[Wormhole]
Shh, don’t tell anybody that I moved the above comment to Hammerspace. Especially not Sydney, she will be all “Teach me, teach me!”
[Comment deleted]
All deleted comments and their makers are to be deleted by order of The Computer .
All hail our friend The Computer .
It’s not paranoia if The Computer IS out to get you…
There’s one last panel, everyone has left. A lonely voice calls from a pile of bricks “Hello? Are we done here? Anyone seen my steak?”
I LOVE IT
+1
So, when V gets supercharged on violence he increases in mass. When Dabbler visits a brothel, do her boobs get bigger?
I’m just a concerned citizen, looking out for the integrity of Dabbler’s corset and maybe hoping for some rather interesting vote incentive art.
He didn’t automaticly grew. He used the power he had to make himself grow
Dabbler is a mistress of illusion. Any apparent growth would have to be examined carefully. They are visual tricks so actual handling is needed to confirm their reality. Keep 911 on speed dial.
Don’t believe the boobs. FEEL the boobs
…Unfortunately, some people are dumb enough that they actually become the boobs…
Thus entertaining us and amusing Dabbler.
are you sure that would not be reversed?
No. But there are others of a more experimental nature who might try before I could get there.
And what happened then? Well, in ARC-ville they say that Dabbler’s boobs grew three sizes that day.
Boo-ya.
So–and I hope I haven’t missed a discussion on this point already–I find myself wondering if any of the attackers other than Vehemence are going to suffer any consequences.
A lot of it will depend, I think, on how the legal system in this universe is set up. If this is treated as a military/national security issue, then the government will likely go the Gitmo route, and misbehaving supers will just get tanked on the first problem, and at best be given an opportunity to earn their release.
But if they are basically run through a standard criminal trial, just with protections in place for dealing with super-powered defendants? Yeah, a first-year law student suffering from advanced syphilis could get every last one of Vehemence’s co-conspirators off, based simply on the fact that he produces a mind-altering effect. Basic law (in the U.S.)–you can’t be held accountable for actions the prosecution can’t prove you could control. The aggro-field is pretty much a get-out-of-jail-free card for anyone who can claim they were under its influence. And I can see V. happily volunteering to testify to the existence of the field, just to ensure that all these folks are running around, causing trouble in the future.
A prosecutor would basically be stuck trying to prove that the attackers had a predisposition to perform the criminal acts, and would have agreed to participate even without a subtle aggro field going off. “Would have” is basically a prosecutor’s nightmare–reasonable doubt kicks in.
Could be 100% wrong, but it aeems to me that the defence would have to PROVE to the judge and jury that:
(a) there is such a thing as an aggro field in the first place;
(b) that said field was ****entirely***** to blame for all of the defendants dropping whatever they were doing, going to that specific place and beating down on federal agents.
Noting too that if (for example), the prosecution has V testify that he ONLY used his aggro field from a specific time, OR one of ARCHON’s experts can prove that the aggro field was only up for such-and-such a period of time and/or was only effective in such-and-such an area, then that entire line of defence will go SPLAT!
It is also possible that the prosecution will offer to “trade down” to lesser charges (happens in court more frequently than many realize – saves time and effort for both sides), Just getting all these guys onto ARCHON’s radar is a huge step in the right direction.
a) Yes. But Archon, as police, are obliged to provide that information. They are aware of it now, and must pass that information on to the courts. Even if they seek permission to keep the true-sight orb classified, they will be able to confirm that the effect is real, and was used.
b) No. All the defence have to do is present the possibility, and then the jury are obligated to find the defendants not guilty. This is because reasonable doubt has been presented.
It is the prosecutions job to try and prove that it categorically did not affect their judgement and behaviour. Which they will have a very hard time doing. Given that the various villains, cops and even a member of the press corps will testify that it did affect them.
In fact, if it even reaches a court, it will be due to either political pressure or public outcry. And, once the above facts are presented to the judge, she may well find that there is no case to answer, and summarily dismiss the proceedings.
Unless the prosecution can prove that the aggro field only had a limited effect, did not get used until late in the battle, or provide some other way to show that the villains remained under their own volition for some of the crimes they perpetrated.
If that happens, then the court cases could be abnormally lengthy, due to having to judge just what degree each individual was in control of their own actions.
+1 for a solid understanding of a foreign country’s legal system. Of course, bear in mind that the standard is reasonable doubt, not any doubt- something that is hampering prosecutions more and more with the advent of crime procedurals on television.
As I see it, (and continuing to admit to my own fallibility), if ARCHON (and the magic-users therein) prove that the aggro field was only activated well’n’truly AFTER the fight actually started (refer – https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1561 ), and was therefore NOT the reason why all these geographically separate supercrooks conspired and then converged on the same place at the same time, it ceases to be a defence.
Then too, there is the matter of setting a precedent, which judges tend to be ….. careful about. I question if they (or most other people) really want a situation where every criminal who has E-VER committed a violent crime in the USA can turn around and appeal their conviction on the basis of the “Aggro Field Defense”. Yes, I am exaggerating there, but only a little. Think about it.
The fact that the Aggro field was only known to be activated later in the fight in no way proves that it was not also active earlier in the fight. The prosecution would have nothing to support that supposition. Whereas the defence can make the powerful argument that Vehemence was seeking to maximise the violence, so had ample motive to have used it earlier. And no reason not to.
The latter is plausible, given the situation. Supporting this is that the person who caused the aggro field was known to be present right from the very outset. Given that the rule is that the defendant is innocent until proven guilty, the jury must assume that this plausible defence is true, unless the prosecution can provide evidence to the contrary.
The precedent is indeed important to consider. However that consideration does not provide a defence to other individuals, elsewhere. As far as is known, only Vehemence can create an aggro field. So other defendants would need to show that he was in the vicinity at the time that they committed a crime, for there to be a plausible defence.
In the event that he was in the locale, then it is possible that Vehemence may indeed have been involved, therefore the defendant deserves their day in court to explore that possibility.
Should anybody else try the defence claiming some other individual has the same power, then their supporting evidence must be examined. Presumably (unless they can show that there is someone else with this super power), there will be nothing to corroborate their contention, therefore there will be no plausible defence.
The latter arguments are not without precedent, by the way. ‘The Devil made me do it’ has been tried in court and found to be lacking. Unless there is some provable indication that there was supernatural or superpowered involvement, then the claim lacks credibility.
With your first paragraph, I respectfully and strongly disagree in pretty much its entirety, but I see no real point in continuing. Had my say, and you’ve had yours, so I guess we’ll see.
Odd, it is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of fact. Halo did not use the true sight orb to check earlier in the fight. Therefore the aggro field may well have been active. She, us, and the court simply would not know. Your assertion that it was not active is therefore erroneous.
My conclusions, based on that fact, simply follow the normal legal rules, so again are not a matter of conjecture, but solid reasoning.
If I have missed some key bit of evidence, or you can show a flaw in my logic, I am happy to be enlightened.
We’re still assuming the only information to go on will be what is available right now. With Vehemence in captivity and the abundance of time to be found in legal proceedings, what’s to say Archon wouldn’t be able to procure concrete proof that his powers can’t work that way?
Absolutely correct. My arguments are based on the facts as we know them at the moment. Anything else would be to venture into the realms of speculation.
If we do that, yours is one valid possibility. Another is that the reverse might happen. Vehemence might confess that he did mastermind the entire event, fully control the actions of the civilians, and provide convincing evidence, which Archon are able to corroborate.
If new facts come in, the story could go in any direction. Barring that happening though, I am very confident that my position is sound.
It’s worth noting that this group of supers made great pains to gather from around the world with the explicit purpose of attacking our heroes. The aggro field does not have the ability to control their actions to that degree, so they’d need a damn good excuse for why they gathered to get off free. And if even one fessed up, it could ruin the defense for the rest of them, too.
And you will prove that how? It is not the defences job to do that, it is up to you, if you are arguing the case of the prosecution.
Do recall that there was a strong teleporter present, who was clearly familiar with Vehemence. A plausible argument could be made (if the defence chose to), that Vehemence controlled her to gather the others. Or transported him to their locals, to affect them, if they travelled by conventional means.
Later, she was able to throw off the shackles of his influence, but prior to that point, she was an innocent girl who would never harm a butterfly!
This is, of course, purely supposition. But it is not unreasonable supposition. As such it maintains plausible doubt in the minds of the jury. And it is only one of many such approaches that can be made when there is somebody messing with the way that people behave.
You are right about the divide and conquer route. It is a good way for police and prosecutors to break ranks if there are lies going on.
Although, of course, that shows that you are pre-disposed to thinking of them as being guilty. Have you not stopped to consider the possibility that they really are innocent?
We can’t just suppose they can get away with saying they have any power they want to escape. Vehemence would likely be asked to demonstrate his ability to control someone or that line of thinking would be dismissed.
Moreover, that kind of elaborate lie would require all of them to cooperate, suggesting that they were foolishly allowed to consider their defense as a group. I have no doubt they’d be interrogated and possibly tried individually before they could formulate such a defense.
Sounds about right. The only way they would luck out is if Dabbler said she sensed the aura when it was raised (she was resisting it and Dave said the first step to that was knowing it was there in the first place so maybe) and would have noticed it earlier had it been active in the area. (I said IF not that she definitely could anyone who chooses to reply)
But even if they lucked out with her it wouldn’t mean V couldn’t have used it before they arrived at the restaurant parking lot. Especially if he used it at a much lower and more subtle setting (probably wouldn’t have much choice if he was powered down). Just enough to get them open to the suggestion of a good scrap. If it was subtle enough they would be more inclined to continue to believe it was all them once they gained momentum. (idea probably didn’t seem as stupid once they had dozens of decently powered supers gathered up)
But even if they were mildly influenced I think they were chosen by V because they were likely to be more readily given to attack legal authorities in an unprovoked surprise attack. So I won’t be feeling really bad for them if they get some kind of sentence or at least fined for all the damage, lost revenue and get their names and powers in the system for future watching.
The aggro field effects everyone, not just the bad guys. Had it been in effect for the start of the fight, the heroes would have been attacking each other just as much as the bad guys like they did during the end game of the battle. That alone negates the claim as a reasonable defense. Then point out he waited till he had powered up, by his own words, way beyond he had ever been before and only THEN started pulling out the strange powers like the aggro aura, and using that as a defense provides as much reasonable doubt as claiming aliens forced them to fight.
Yours is a good argument, and I feel the prosecution would be sure to attempt it. I do not feel that it is conclusive, however, and there are counter-arguments that the defence can pose.
Your own comment providing one angle, straight away. Initially Vehemence was weaker. So may have only been able to affect less individuals then. That he would choose to target it at the ill-disciplined civilians, rather than the highly trained, elite, super team, is hardly surprising.
This approach would still leave the defence with a strong case for aquittal.
Should the prosecution find some way to weaken that argument, the defence could try another approach, using the same basis, but with a different angle. Namely, when Vehemence was weaker, so was the aggo field. It was influencing everybody, but only subtly.
The cops were enjoying themselves at a social event, after a successful day. Therefore the aggro field was only taking the edge off their enjoyment, and they were engaging in harsher banter than they might otherwise have done.
Citing, at this point, the thoughtless breach of confidence that Harem made, in front of numerous witnesses, as an example to support that contention.
Whereas the civilians were in a strange neighbourhood, at night, with the usual worries that might entail. Throw in the fears that people might suffer from, following the aggressive display by Archon, earlier in the day, and it is easy to see why those individuals would be more susceptible to influence than the police.
This argument does leave the defendants open to charges though, albeit with diminished responsibility, so the defence would avoid it, whilst the other, more robust defence is still available.
In both cases though, the burden of proof remains on the prosecution, not the defence. They must come up with strong evidence however, as the ‘aggro defence’ is a very strong opening argument for the defence team.
The biggest hole in your scenario is that the prosecution can point to a singular event which proves V wasn’t controlling them- he had to physically stop teleport girl from transporting everyone away when the villains were losing the fight. If she was under his mental command, why would he have had to knock her out to stop her? Check and mate.
There’s also other circumstantial evidence the prosecution can point to. When people are under his aura effect, they tend attack whoever’s nearest regardless of friendship or allegiance. When the villains arrive they are fighting as a group, with a clear delineation between them, and the federal agents. Thus, he isn’t using his aura at the time.
It’s a decent gambit, but it falls apart under scrutiny. There is no reasonable doubt to be found here.
There is no hole in my scenario. I stated that the defence is not required to prove the innocence of their client. It is up to the prosecution to prove the contrary. That said, however, you are providing a good argument that the prosecution could deploy.
But, again, you are leaping to the conclusion that it is a watertight argument. It is not. What it does do is weaken the first proposal I suggested the defence would propose. Where they maintain that the defendants had totally lost volition, all of the time.
What it does do is put a good argument that some of the defendants had some degree of control over their action some of the time.
The fact that ‘Teleport girl’ (and Halo) were powerful enough to fight off the effect does not prove that everybody is strong enough to do the same. Arianna and Suzy News were not. Uncheck unmate.
That the field did not seem to be affecting the police earlier on, can simply be attributed to Vehemence being weaker initially. The defendants were closer to him, so he affected them first. None of them were behaving in a threatening way, but then they saw the terrifying Maxima, and lost all self-control.
This is why I said that if the prosecution could come up with a good argument to counter the initial defence approach, then it would take a long time to resolve the case. Because after this point, you have to assess just how much volition each individual had, at any given point.
The hairdresser, and probably some of the other defendants, will likely maintain that they were of good moral character prior to this incident, and the only explanation they can provide as to their dramatic change in behaviour was being affected by the aggro field.
Given my counters above, to your arguments, this remains entirely plausible.
Mine is not a gambit, nor does it fall apart under scrutiny. Reasonable doubt will remain in this situation. Unless the prosecution can come up with damning evidence. Which, I dispute that you have provided, on their behalf.
The point is that every argument you can raise is very strongly undermined by the indisputable fact that there was somebody present who was actively changing peoples behaviour beyond their control!
This is a crippling situation for any prosecutor to find himself in. It is not the open and shut case you are trying to argue.
Just like we cannot find somebody guilty if they are temporarily insane, we cannot hold them guilty if they are not in full control of their own actions. And it is the prosecutions job to prove that they were, under these circumstances. If they cannot convince the jury, then the defendants go free.
Life is complicated though, so the results could simply be mixed. If the prosecution fights the case well. Some defendants might proudly boast that they would have behaved that way with or without control. Several of them seemed arrogant enough to do that. So they, and others with weaker cases, may get the book thrown at them.
Whereas ones with a better defence (such as the hairdresser, and those who actively supported the police, later) may be fully acquitted. And, if full mind-control cannot be asserted for all of the remaining defendants (you are indeed making some good arguments to weaken that), then some may only get reduced sentences, on the grounds of diminished responsibility.
Except Halo can testify she wasn’t able to “fight it off.” She was immune to it while it was outside her shield. The moment she was exposed, it affected her. You have too low an opinion of the prosecution here. They’ll get people like the hairdresser to plead guilty to reduced charges in return for testimony against any holdouts. Once you have other villains admitting they weren’t being controlled, the charade falls apart. Recheck, re-mate.
As a note here, I meant it was a decent gambit for the defense attorneys. Ultimately, every villian’s best move is to plead guilty to whatever deal they can get, but I’d bet most of them end up serving time. The ringleaders in particular could end up with serious jail time.
This is where you show your greatest misunderstanding of the legal system. What if they really are innocent?
Unrecheck, unremate.
That is why we have trials and the whole legal system. Things are not always as they seem, to those holding the noose, and looking for the nearest tall tree to throw it over.
Not to mention the possibility that the aggro field is always on and even affects Vehemence himself!
In which case his lawyers would have good grounds to even get him acquitted by seeking ‘not guilty on grounds of insanity’. He certainly showed some contradictory behaviour, such as not killing Halo, when she was defenceless and thwarting his machinations. Which they might explain as his good character, trying to break through the induced insanity.
Ultimately the court might conclude that there were no ‘ringleaders’ nor intentional villainy. It was wholly attributable to an uncontrollable super power.
Not that I am proposing this as likely. But, give it a thought.
I’d assume the case would largely hinge on the method of V’s group gathering. Basically anyone knowing the intent of the gathering and leaving V’s area of influence (which can probably be reasonably limited to hundred meters or so, especially when not well fed) would have to provide a plausible reason to return, knowing what they are about to do. I guess it would be like taking drugs that alter your judgement, if you do it voluntarily then you are responsible for your actions while high.
Granted, there’s threats or trying to get friends out of the group to consider, and the remote possibility of actual mind control… but those would have to be proven again to reasonable doubt level.
So basically, prosecution would have to be able to point out that some defendants (because I highly doubt they are all villains) were not constantly affected and could have left the group had they wanted to. Effects of the aggro aura were rather instant both in and out so lingering effects would have to be proven again.
Long and arduous road like you’ve said, or a really short one if there’s no reasonable way to dispute the aggro aura effect from being nearly constant from the point of plan reveal onwards.
That said, depending on the police officers in question, trying to bully the unwilling people like the hairdresser to confess for lesser punishments and crack the defense from there is not particularly far fetched option. All it takes is someone who either doesn’t see it that way or wants the career boost, good people committing crimes tend to feel guilty to begin with.
Nope, still checked and mated. Halo saw him turn it off. Therefore, we know he has control of it. He even said it to Maxima while attacking her. Further, we know of at least one case where a villain was cut off from the aura and did not change at all… Nega knuckles was inside the shield and still tried to murder a federal officer, point blank.
Also the person displaying ignorance of the American legal system is you. As annoying as it is to admit, most prosecutors are waaaay less concerned with guilt or innocence and more concerned with getting convictions. If they can convict you, they will do so. It’s just points on the scoreboard. The first DA to put actual super villains behind bars? They’ll be all over it. They will mercilessly lay it on the table for people like hairdresser and make a big deal of the maximum sentence for things like assaulting a federal officer. Faced with the possibility of hard time, most people will fold like yesterday’s newspaper. The DA will get guilty pleas for lesser crimes and testimony against the hard cases, and that will be all she wrote.
Also, insanity is really hard to prove, and while he might not have intended to kill anyone personally, he was more than willing to put people in a position to die. Mach the Knife hits an artery or Heavenly succeeds in stabbing Dabbler in the face and it’s over. All that means is Vehemence doesn’t like to personally kill people if he doesn’t have to.
Soundly argued Kaamio
Why do I get the impression that Stan Lee will make a walk on appearance now?
The aggro field did, at one point, affect everyone. This doesn’t mean it *must* affect everyone. Since the nature of his powers aren’t very well documented, all that can be said with certainty is he has the ability to make people violent.
So, having read the excellent arguments this query generated…
Assuming an actual typical legal structure under American law, a LOT would depend on Vehemence, and also on how things went down.
Say V. put out feelers and make contacts, eventually arranging a meeting, which leads directly to the attack. Everyone is in his theoretical range for the entire time–that gives a LOT more reasonable doubt.
At which point, it hinges pretty tightly on V’s own testimony–and I could easily see him choosing to perjure himself, if he thinks it’ll be more fun to set all these folks free by claiming to have controlled them.
One of the counter-arguments pointed out that at least one of the attackers continued to attack while in the field (and thus shielded)–that villain, at least, is looking at hard time, no matter what.
Just like it’s not ying yang, it’s not port mortem. It’s post mortem, as in after death.
A port mortem is like a post mortem except you do it drunk on port.
*raises a glass* To absent shipyards and ports.
Does the after the fact analysis, in this thread, seem a little one-sided?
*passes the port to the left*
*accepts the port*
You can’t very well pass port to the starboard…
So that’s where the tradition comes from. I may not stop laughing all weekend. Thanks.
No one died, no ships were sank. Well, one car was destroyed, and it was a full frame ‘Merican car, too! Plenty of steel and not much MPG, but quite a smooth ride. Until it exploded, that is.
One day I’d like to see about doing a restoration on a ’73 Lincoln Town Car. That car had the smoothest ride of any I have ever owned. 460ci engine, 10MPG, made out of battleship steel, a hood that you could unfold a 1:1 scale map of the USA on, and a back seat with far more leg room than the front seat on many current vehicles.
I’m certain;y not complaining about the length of the fight in pages! More to see and more to read!
While the Chinese terms are “yin” and “yang”, “ying-yang” is an American slang term.
Sydney does use it rather oddly though. I always thought it was a reference to a different, and singular, part of female anatomy.
But considering how much of a nerd Sydney is, it would be unsurprising for her to get a slang term wrong. Of course, the same statement applies to me.
You’ve basically got this idea correct. Here’s the thing: If we assume that Sydney is talking about how many powers V has or where he’s pulling them from, then her original statement would be correct (“he’s got powers up the ying-yang and he’s pulling them out of his ying-yang!”) On the other hand, if she’s referring to the concept espoused by many Chinese philosophies (Tao, Zen, et. al.), specifically that of duality, wherein yang refers to masculine power, then the term that refers to feminine power (or, really, just feminine qualities in general) is yin.
Stupid no edit function. Makes for nested comments. The ying-yang is not a specifically female term; both men and women have ying-yangs. It’s just that the feminine versions are generally more attractive than the male versions…
…Depending, of course, on the observer’s point of view…
;)
It all depends on my point of view?
I feel so important now. ^///^ I shall begin the comparisons immediately! But where ever shall I find a prodigious pile of promptly perusable posteriors? I shall consult the interbutts! XD
I gather that there is a blue pill that can help with that problem.
Hey! I clearly used the right word. It was impoRtAnt not impotent… :-P
And if that was a Matrix ref then clearly the red pill is called for here. ;)
:-D
Search all you like…As long as you don’t wind up making an @$$ of yourself along the way.
;)
Dabbler can Yin my Yang anytime…
I am still calling for someone to make a looping .gif of Dabbler’s bouncy rope jumping Yings.
Is that the Halo sword on her left shoulder?
Dabbler’s markings? They seem to vary from time to time depending what magic she is using. And Dave is noted for leaving little things like that laying around for the sharper-eyed readers to appreciate.
Just did a re-read of the entire battle and was surprised how well paced the whole thing is. In fact, far from being slow, there is at least one part that seemed rushed (the taking down of Death Toll). Maximas trust in Sydneys plans goes from dismissal (and some anger) to following her lead even though she didn’t know the result. The villians build nicely to the mid level boss (DT), then the end of level boss (V of course). The fight ended on a good note and V’s submission is a logical choice for him to make and a merciful result.
I’ve been one of the people muttering about V and his powers, but read in context I was wrong. His fight builds nicely and leaves the scene set for an end of battle montage/sequence.
It’s the two updates a week that have been altering my perception of the pacing, not the comic itself.
So, damn good comic and looking forward to the next section.
I’m personally going to wait until February 10 to reread the whole fight- there is a method to my madness, though! While I get paid reasonably well, this paycheck is largely claimed by rent and groceries and other such stuff. If I wait until February, two things will happen:
1) I will have enough distance (I hope) to read the sequence without bias (because, right now, even his ugly puss on this page makes me want to punch a baby).
2) I will have sufficient money to pay for the couple months I have had my Patreon deactivated, provided I feel that the comic still warrants it.
Thought the death-toll bit was important for character development.
It gave Sidney the confidence to execute the plan vs vehemence and the team’s confidence in her (lets face it, she doesn’t exactly inspire confidence some times ;) )
Vehemence is an interesting villain, but I can’t see him actually staying as a villain for too long, once they were aware of his powers, it exposes some large weak-spots they can exploit next time and they know to take him first before he has time to charge.
Jiggawatt in panel 3, looks great! Not sure about the lipstick, but all else, great!
Just realized that Jiggawatt’s hair changed to blond after the Breakpoint sonic attack. Any real reason for this?
Author said that she looked too much like storm.
Although, to be fair, that would be an awesome side-effect for Breakpoint’s sonic attacks: they’re so powerful, they knock the dye/bleach right out of your hair!
She’s not vegan though. Therefore, she can’t knock the dye out of someone’s hair.
bonus points if you get the reference.
Can I haz points?
Going blonde though made he look like a gender swapped Frostbyte. :p But I like her blonde hair, so I hope it stays.
Call me crazy, but V may be a really good candidate for the team.
Think about it. His power set is strong and he’s a fairly intelligent and polite individual. His motivation was basically to get as strong as he could because it felt good. Offer him employment in a crime fighting organization. He gets violence, he helps society, steady employment, eventually respect and its better than wherever they are going to have to put him.
Hi Crazy!
Also: No, just no….
I dunno, Crazy there has a point.
He could be their Godzilla Threshold member…
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodzillaThreshold
That trope suggests he be locked away until he is desperately needed. Not really a member of the team more of the Devil you deal with when you can’t think of anything else.
Well, either way, better than just killing him.
I could see him being recruited, for a one-off saving the world type situation, where anyone else weaker would not be able to help. But, short of that, incitement to riot ,and attempting to murder police, is usually frowned on by police recruitment officials.
Honestly, while he’s not quite in the worst position he could be in, legally, there’s no way any law-enforcement agency would hire him unless Galactus himself was knocking on their door with an eviction notice in hand. As it stands, Vehemence ought to be thankful that nobody died, since I believe this battle royale occurred in Texas and that state has the death penalty…
He’d make a good bomb to drop into the middle of “terrorist held” territory. Like those radioactive beads inserted into inoperable cancers to kill them. He’ll if the NSA got wind of him they’d want him for regime changes.
Also he would not be the first “good” guy super to cause the death of a combatant or innocent for that matter. Many of the Hulk’s “emotional outbursts” were against groups of soilders (at least the earlier ones) and there’s no way they all lived through those battles. And the death toll of “evil” minions must be in the millions in any continuum. If some shadowy secret group of the government wanted him working for them his “sudden death” would be recorded along with a quick cremation “just to be sure” and he’d disappear into the ” Black Ops” world.
No, it makes sense, He and maxima hang back like she did during this fight, her giving orders, him absorbing energy. Then, when things get hairy, we have two heavy hitters charged up and ready to join in. Its doubtful vehemence would want to waste his time fighting bank robbers, so hanging back likely wouldnt bother him much. Plus it gives him the chance to experiment more with what he can do with his abilities. Vehemence is a violent dude, but he isnt some kill the world and watch the people burn mad man, he just likes a good fight. I dont think he would mind that kind of job.
Rofl. His opinion is not the issue. Neither the public in general, nor the police, would accept a violent murderer being offered a job as a police officer.
It is akin to saying that Jack the Ripper should be offered a position in an operating theatre, because he has the skilled hand of a surgeon, and quite likes to cut people open!
I also like how there’s Dabbler’s hand on one side of his head, representing the non-violent, non-deadly way of ending the fight and Maxima’s hand on the other side, representing the utterly lethal, Happy-in-Pander-inducing method on the other side of his head. Nice visual :)
Hey move the eyes upwards – Dabbler has two tongue studs! Has anyone else noticed this? And I see a hint of a forked tongue.
3 Barbels actually. Check the last panel on this page.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/626
And yes, she has a naturally forked tongue.
‘Course she does; demon heritage. They speak with forked tongues full of lies…
She also has two other perky, eye-catching, body parts, which I absolutely adore, and would love to stroke.
Those are the cutest little horns!
You & me both…
apparently, neither of us actually need Dabbler to feel horny
Fun as all of this was, I think Vehemence just upgraded Sydney to the #1 (or at least #2) spot on his list of enemies.
Naa, he is Vehemence not Vengeance. Granted, he is likely to want a re-match, for the kicks, and would respect Halo’s capabilities. But would be after Arc-SWAT, as a whole, not Sydney individually. In my opinion, anyhow.
Not enemy. Respected opponent
I think he might be torn. Maxima is the biggest physical threat, but sydney was the one who figured out a way to beat him. Maxima can kill him, sydney can beat him.
I like the way Sydney beat him too. Like an adult telling a rowdy kid to settle down: “Play time’s over, it’s time for your nap.”
:D
As for how they keep V locked up? No problem. Simply turn him over to Dabbler…
Think about it. She has a pocket dimension lab that only she can get into and out of, or bring things in and out of anyway. She has a penchant for bondage (hellooo. Succubi ?) and may need a little lab monkey to test things on.
Can’t get much further away from Violent energy than there. Can’t get much harder to find for a breakout. The fact that he knows some magic just means she keeps him away from that part of the lab yes? Store him in the lab, in cuffs and rubber constricting suit (that I ah only know about from hearsay) and you are done. Then make comments occasionally about having to go feed the gerbil…
seriously? V’s pretty smart, and giving him access to all those weapons (since super villains always escape) would be bad, since he wouldn’t have to leave the lab, just use them on dabbler right there, so they wouldn’t teleport away. Dabbler is his apparent weakness, so with her gone, ArcSwat is kind of in trouble.
Better solution: build a titanium reinforced room in a Zen Buddhist monastery. Some Zen monasteries are the sort of place where the most violent act within the walls would be harvesting herbs and vegetables (anything V does on his own notwithstanding). Without enough violence to juice up, he’s completely reliant upon outside help, which would be unlikely if his location is kept an absolute secret.
Who knows, maybe V might even turn over a new leaf and gain a heroic nature and power set based upon Zen mastery of mind and body?
Probably a better option in the same context would merely involve Dabbler setting up a different “pocket dimension” that’s specifically purposed for holding Vehemence. She could still utilize the same kind of teleportation-access that she uses for her lab/workshop, but it would be completely separated from it.
As for “time to feed the gerbil” goes, Dabbler might refer to her “pocket prison” as The Zoo or maybe The Menagerie.
;)
There have been many comments on bringing the attacking supers into court. I think there may also be another side to worrying about. There is the issue of one or more of the criminals suing ARC for excessive use of force. I can see their lawyer bringing them into court in wheelchairs and going on about then not being read their rights and suffering emotional distress etc.
Their lawyer stands up and addresses the judge saying that he is asking that bail for the ARC commander be denied and that she be put into custody awaiting trial, because she represents (pointing at Maxima hovering above the floor) an obvious FLIGHT risk.
That has GROAN out of all proportion, rather like Vehemence. I think that American culture would benefit from becoming less litigious, and more GROUNDED. Mmm, again like Vehemence. I think that Archon’s lawyers would like to present a human face, in opening, and say HALO from the SUPER HIROs.
They might not call the GENERAL, as he might tell the litigants to FAULK off. But I am convinced that the team could mount a STALWART defence, and avoid their ACHILES heel. MATH could be used to show that the force was proportionate.
To begin with ARC is not the police. Think more military less civilian. Do captured enemies go to court? Rarely and mostly for show trials. They would be treated as enemy combatants and tried (if at all) in a court set up by ARC. Mostly to keep them out of the public eye. There is a minor issue of their identities and powers getting out. Also recruitment and recompense is difficult if everyone knows who they are and what their powers are. Some my turn out to be superhero material without V’s influence others my just want to go back to their old life still others may need watching for further transgressions. Far better if lawyers and politicians are not involved to any great degree.
Update Incoming!! I Repeat!! Update Incoming!!
Prepare the Awesomeness Absorb-er’s
Ready the Coolness Threshold Barriers!
Raise the Geek-Out Containment Shields!
*glares defiantly at the still grey “Next” button.*
This day Gentlemen……. This day we face-off against a storm of awesome the likes of wish out fore-bearers could scarcely image…. May the Gods be with us all….
It’s that last hour before the update that’s the worst…
Only 5th place on TWC? Vote, people!
(back to pressing F5 in hopes of update…)
@Midnight DSroyer – You have revealed a secret vital to the security of Alpha Complex. The Computer needs you to report to the reactor room. There is a hole in the radiation shielding that needs to be filled, roughly the size of a human body. The Computer thinks you are perfect for the job. The Computer thinks your next clone will serve it better.
“Riding Shotgun” hearkens back to the USA’s “Wild West” days of stagecoaches where (in rough/unfriendly territory) there would be a guard riding alongside the driver with a shotgun. Nowadays, it refers to any passenger sitting in the front seat alongside the driver [ armed or not :) ], rather then in the back. “Calling shotgun” is competitive youngsters laying claim to that preferred seating position before anyone else does.
Except Yin is the black side of the symbol, & means evil…
Um, no, it does not mean evil. Unless you consider women, night time, and all soft martial arts styles to be inherently evil.
A human with no yin at all is a corpse, since exhaling is a yin movement.
Speaking of terrible precedents, they have him mostly pinned but he’s still struggling. Maxima’s ‘solution’ is the super power equivalent of a cop walking up to a suspect handcuffed on the ground and putting two bullets in the back of his head, execution style.
You can argue necessity all you like, but under existing laws that would be second degree murder charges for the cop unless the local prosecutor was so corrupt he’d be subject to the RICO Act.
That is an incorrect analogy. You have omitted several factors. Vehemence is more powerful than them, and the more they struggle to restrain him, the stronger he becomes. Thus he is on the brink of escaping. Plus he is armed with a weapon (his super powers) that could kill every cop present and cannot be disarmed.
A closer analogy would be a suspect holding a loaded machine gun, who is being pinned (but not handcuffed) and is clearly on the brink of breaking free.
He presents a clear and present danger to their lives. They have every right to kill him. Duck shoot though it may be, if they (in either the comic or the analogy) delay, then lives will be lost. The law has nothing to do with how sporting it is, it hinges on the right to self-defence.
Maxima’s voice isn’t gravilly in this page.