Grrl Power #329 – It’s only painless if you ignore the back pain
When I started writing this page I may have overestimated the weight of a minigun. I based it off what I remember hearing the prop from Predator weighing, which was something like 160 pounds. Thinking about it now that may have included the belt and the backpack, or heck it may have been someone’s estimation of the total weight including the ammo. I actually timed all the firing time in the movie once cause I’m a big nerd like that. The “Schwarzenegger’s Forest Clearing Service” scene was the bulk of it of course, but all told it was very nearly 60 seconds worth, and depending on the exact model of the minigun that comes out to somewhere between 2,000 and 6,000 rounds, and that adds up.
Turns out the GE M134 Minigun, which I think is what Blaine used, weighs 85 pounds (39 kg). (There’s a lighter variant but clearly this one is not that.) The prop for the movie was modified, for instance it had some kind of rifle grip on the bottom. It actually looked like a pump action shotgun but it was probably just a handhold. Anyway, Sydney could probably lift 85 lbs off the ground if she could get her legs and back into it, but picking it up when it’s already waist high mostly using her biceps would be… well, impossible according to this page. Also I can say the one on the table is modified and weighs whatever I want it to. :) If nothing else, six bayonets and the clamps to hold them on to the spinning barrels would probably add what, 10-ish pounds?
The previous page telegraphs this one a bit, and a few people in the comments called this outcome with comments like “Yeah, if she can lift it” which is why I wanted this page and the previous one to go up as a double page, but there’s only so much time in a week and I was still catching up from the previous double. Well one day I’ll have a bevy of unpaid interns doing backgrounds and making 3D models for me. :)
Here’s the link to the new comments highlighter for chrome, and the GitHub link which you can use to install on FireFox via Greasemonkey.
Just commenting on Dave’s comments regarding the weight of the gun. I’d say her lifting capability is reflected appropriately in the comic, don’t worry. I doubt the average woman could lift 39kg, let alone a tiny, skinny, dorky, no-fitness weak-arms like Sydney. I struggle to lift 10-15kg, and I’m probably a foot taller than her. Heck, I doubt Sydney even WEIGHS 39kg. LOL.
Yeah, sounds about right. She don’t look so strong, doubt she’s be able to lift that thing. As long as she doesn’t work out the fact her Lighthook Orb should be able to lift it, everyone should be safe. And if she does work that out, let’s hope it can deal with the recoil or it’s shredding EVERYTHING…
I’m sure she’d be able to lift it, if it was in a convinient shape that makes things easy to lift, located at the right hight, ect ect..
She’d probably be able to lift a 40kg backpack, asuming it’s well designed to put the weight on your legs, and she doesn’t actually have to move around with it
the fun part would be her firing it, what sort of recoil does that thing have?
Lots would be my guess. Plus the torque from those rapdily whirling barrels.
Wikipedia notes that the recoil force on a GE M134 is about 86kg, giving it a thrust-to-weight of about 2. So it would be like someone weighing more than Sydney shoving REALLY HARD as soon as she pulled the trigger.
Interestingly, assuming she had unlimited, weightless ammo, she could use the minigun to fly. https://what-if.xkcd.com/21/
kg is not a force. 840 N, maybe?
The gun could lift about 86kg off the ground by virtue of it’s recoil.
So the force is 860 kgm/s/s (86kg * 10m/s/s), which is 860 N, which is a force. 86 kg is not force. Notably, if you shifted planets, 860 N would lift different amounts of mass, so there is no direct equivalence between a mass and the force that would lift it, unless you assume that gravity is constant and there are no other forces acting on the object.
Actually since earth gravity is more like 9.8m/s/s, it’s more like 843 N, but close enough.
A foot-pound is the energy to move (lift?) one pound a distance of one foot.
(one horsepower = 550 ft/lbs)
A Newton is the energy to accelerate one KG one meter in one second.
(also a small fig cookie)
A Joule is the energy of supplying 1 watt over one second.
(A kilowatt hour is 3.6 megajoules)
(a foot-pound is 1.36 joules)
The output of various rounds are compared on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_energy
You remember the scene from Predator?
The one used there was loaded with ‘flash only’ blanks that have reduced recoil and the way the gun is swinging around is as much as he could control it.
Last panel + tiny comment = literal LOL
Thanks for the Monday morning laugh.
For the prop in predator, the modified M134 had a brace with an attached handguard off an M60 [old school Vietnam era, not an E3 like Mac was carrying] mounted under the barrel assembly.
Also, to power it [Most people forget that the minigun is electric, the lighter one uses a cameraman belt pack, but it takes considerable juice] they had a power cable running up Jessie Ventura’s pant leg.
As for recoil…the prop gun in Predator and T2 was loaded with blanks, so you are getting lots of tiny explosions with very little mass…so you get a little bit of a push. The real one is vehicle mounted because when you add a 147 grain projectile being flung out the end, that increases your reaction mass significantly, especially when you are firing them at 2000 to 6000 rounds per minute. Basically, you would be trying to hang onto a pulse rocket…hence the reason they are vehicle mounted in reality [well that and the power requirements and weight]
Relevant viewing –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvHMbN_epe4
jknfvkshjbeikhjbngkljnedskjvks OH SCRAP, IS THAT WHAT THOSE THINGS DO?!?!?! Scrap me, why don’t I get 1 of those?!?! WAAAAANNNT!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJp0OmlYFS4
Notice the cables and shes not carrying the ammo…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cJX8ZilG_E
Watch the first burst she does with the short barrel Minigun in this one…
If you start it from 2:51, it goes straight to the mini gatling gun. Looks like fun, just gotta get used to the recoil…
Link straight to 2:51…
https://youtu.be/2cJX8ZilG_E?t=2m51s
oh, and in case anyone missed it, they are heavy for a reason. Unlike a normal machinegun, that is meant to be hand carried, these are meant to be vehicle mounted for a reason. That cylinder behind the barrels contains 6 bolts and the gearing to run them back and forth and rotate the barrels and the offset cylinder is an electric motor. Those are NOT light. The light one replaces some of the parts with titanium, but its still heavy
The lighthook is probably her best bet for using that weapon use it as mounting and pull the trigger with her other hand.
that sounds reasonable. I’m wondering though if maybe one of the orbs gives her strength? I dunno, I mean she might have tested for super strength, but, if she just held it, waiting for it to do something, well, unless she actually tried to lift something, maybe Sydney wouldn’t notice?
Clearly you are forgetting that Sydney is a tabletop roleplaying gamer. Testing discovered technomagic items, to see if they buff attributes, is so routine that she would have done that on autopilot. And strength buffing is by far the easiest one to test.
Sydney very likely eliminated that as a possibility, long before she discovered the telepresence, for example.
Plus having super strength, but only being able to use one hand for it would just be disappointing.
Yes, but I suspect that she eventually be able to use the orb’s powers without holding them. They’re clearly connected to her mind, so it’s a logical upgrade. Also… her skill chart suggests that more than one orb can be combo’ed, which is only possible if she got around the two hands limitation.
Bad move on Peggy’s part.
Sydney can still use the lighthook orb to carry the minigun for her.
Only if Range Master Peggy allows the use of non-strength/physical abilities on her firing line ;)
She could easely ban that on the basis of poor finecontrol over the thing
I was thinking that myself. In fact I could see Sydney picking herself off the floor, grabbing the LH orb, and addressing the minigun with the line “I’ll be back.”
+1 for style
+1 for keeping it in character
I have got to say that the facial expressions on this page (and body language) are awesome. Notably the dynamics formed by the three massively contrasting emotions in the first panel. Maxima’s deadpan resignation response to Peggy’s comment is unique.
Nicely followed by the gamut of Mr Bean expressions, that Sydney gets up to. Particularly liking the onset of her exhaustion, at the end.
Definitely agree!!
+1
Maxima, i am positive your comment in the last panel has been shared by most major battle manga writers, given the shit they try and get away with in those.
Ha ha, first time I REALLY see a gag coming. I award myself a Trophy :D
However the lighthook trick could be a little dangerous, not sure she can hold the thing into position if she starts firing. I mean, the kickback of that thing may be quite a thing, right?
And Kudos for the last sentence of Maxima: “sometimes I forget stuff has weight” <– Best "real life" Superman sentence EVER !
actually, as long as the platform is somewhat stable, they are quite controllable…even firing from the hip as shown in the above clips [the G4 one would be the best example as the young woman doesn’t work with guns as much as the woman in the first clip]
I sort of thought it was an extra large minigun, cartoonishly bigger than normal, for use by extra strong characters. Honestly in the last panel on the previous page I thought it was on the floor, and thus larger than Sydney herself.
It makes much more sense as a normal sized one, and no shock that Sydney can’t lift it. She’s small. If she wanted to move it she could just use her lighthook.
I’m thinking there is NO need for this minigun to be the lite version, not with the muscle that’s on the team. Heck, I’m sure some of the supers could carry an anti-tank gun as if it were a sidearm.
And given the durability of possible opponents, they’d need anti-tank weaponry available.
Kind of odd that she didn’t just lighthook the thing. Dunno what the strength rating is on that thing but it’s handled carrying Gwen, Peggy, and a Harem at the same time so I think it can handle a minigun.
I think this is one of those moments where Sydney just gets so excited that she completely forgets that she has powers. Either that or the fact that it’s just not the same if you’re not actually holding it.
Sydney wants to level her gun skill. The girl is smart enough to know she should get to know the basics, before trying to mix it up with powers. If she is like me she would have a mental image of her holding a fire hose, from a fire truck, turning it on, and being thrown around like a rag-doll.
Ok, the lighthook actually handles the force, rather than her, but we have seen it being knocked out of position, by Vehemence, so we know it is not immovable. And Sydney had a very nasty experience experimenting with the PPO. So now has a healthy respect around destructive weapons.
She still wants to play with them mind. :-D Just carefully.
But there is the practicality that she needs to be able to actually load it first (putting the belt in or whatnot). Which she would not be able to do one handed, whilst holding the tentacle orb. So Sydney was initially trying to familiarise herself with the weapon by picking it up, and examining it, to figure out what to do.
Peggy’s face and stance in panel two, so “The Master” from tae kwon leap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8VD4JXUozM
I think this experience could be used an an incentive for Sydney to concentrate on her upcoming physical training regimen. They could make her the promise “Once you are able to pick up that gun and hold it steady for ten seconds you can fire it.”
Knowing Sydney, she will just try to get someone build her an exoskeleton power suit and skip all the tedious body building.
Good result this time, but the push ups they are a coming.
Push ups are for striking. She needs some pull ups for lifting. Can she even do a pull up?
I love the faces Sydney pulls on this page. I keep re-reading it and chuckle each time!
Did not originally notice that the gun was on a table. The angle in the last comic left me thinking it was a huge thing the size of a motorcycle. :)
Sidney you silly girl. Just use your tentacle thingy to pick it up :D
Not so mini now, huh? (Or were there depleted uranium parts or bullets in that thing? ;-) )
Now of course, Sydney will know why they do so many pushups, pullups, etc. She might’ve pulled a muscle too, which would not be fun – it would take her weeks to recover and put her on “light duty”.
So why am I commenting when so many others have said the same? Because I realized something: against Vehemence and For Whom The Death Tolls, only Sydney was able to come up with any sort of effective plan. Twice, before her formal training began, amidst a group of professionals. She picked up on Math’s lesson particularly well.
Now, I’m not saying she shouldn’t go through the basic training – clearly she needs it more than anyone else. But it might be worth having someone like Peggy spend a few hours on a one-on-one debrief with Sydney, specifically to learn as a commissioned officer how better to handle these situations. Especially since as a sniper, she’s supposed to be more cool-headed. Unconventional tactics would be her specialty – she could learn something.
Speaking of which, it feels wrong to refer to Peggy by her first name in these comments. Maxima I assume is some kind of Air Force handle or nickname. So calling a colonel by that nickname is acceptable. Peggy is a 1st Lieutenant, I believe, and should not be on a first-name basis with the enlisted folk. We need a last name or a callsign for her.
(Then again, these are supposed to be federal cops, not military, but still.)
IRRC it’s been said that her name is Maxima Leander.
The ‘Cast’ button has the two listed as Lt. Col. Maximillia Leander and 1st Lt. Peggy Kessler.
Personally, I think Dave should make Peggy’s (sorry, Lt. Kessler’s) middle initial P. Then our gun expert would have the initials PPK.
Or we’ll find out that Peggy is her middle name. Her first name is Roberta.
The unit uses a formal call-sign. The choosing of which is a significant coming of age and bonding moment, within the team. Until it is chosen, they do not even get their customised neck-wear, but have to use the plain black chokers. And it is what they will have for the rest of their career, so that is why Ren is not rushing into choosing his.
Sydney chose “Halo”. The team leader chose “Maxima,” Whilst Peggy chose “Peggy”.
It is perfectly correct for Sydney to address her by her call-sign.
Actually… Arianna chose Halo. though from my experience in the Navy, those personnel of similar rank (Maxima and Peggy) can call each other by their first names, but… when officers are around enlisted, the protocol is for everyone to use LAST names rather than first… though that varies as well. and depending on how formal of a setting it is too. in a setting like this, i can see them going by first names for everyone, Ren and Bishi-boy as well. Varia has her call-sign already so she’ll go by that… but if the General shows up… it’ll go to Rank and Last Names really really quick, and Sydney will be left in the dust so-to-speak…
Perks of being a civilian I operated the policy of using first names for everyone. Some companies it was standard practice. But for others it was not. Yet, not once in my career, did I use somebody’s second name, other than to distinguish them if there were more than one with the same Christian name.
Ok, part of that was my issues with names. I would avoid using any name, unless it was unavoidable. But, when necessary, first names would trigger memory block less, so I stuck to those. However it did work out very well for me,in treating everyone identically. Junior staff, cleaners, temps, and so on, all liked the lack of formality and equality (for that and other ways I behaved).
Whereas, going the other way, chief executive officers and managing directors, although sometimes surprised by it, seemed to find my attitude refreshing. I suspect that they got a lot of brown-nosing, and probably also found a stuffy office to be tedious. Even if it was their own style and policy which set it! Besides which, I never got pretentious, or overly chummy.* So I had an excellent working relationship with them.
* Something Sydney has pushed too far in this room. I would reciprocate with any who were being chummy with me one on one. But would not push it and presume that they would appreciate me initiating such. They are the boss and invariably very busy.
And I certainly would not behave in an overly familiar way if other staff or management were present. The heads of organisations (and divisions of it) need to retain an air of respect. Even if they do not comment on it, it will be irritating them, to some degree or another, to have that undermined.
Mind you, the exception to that is where the boss’s attitude makes it clear it is ok, even in company. So Sydney is probably ok, as Maxima runs a very informal unit.
Sydney’s first day working out in the archon gym…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4it0lIOWvlc
“Mind if I just lie down here for a minute?” – Ed Gruberman
What if she had fired it WITHOUT picking it up?
I think it would just go ‘click’. It does not have the external battery pack and ammo magazine attached yet. (which then doubles the weight)
Peggy needs to do one more thing – forbid further use for now. Otherwise the old gamer rules lawyer instincts will kick in and convince Sydney that the permission doesn’t expire.
I’d be the same as her gun. Take it apart, put it back together, name everything, and describe it’s function.
Peggy:Sydney,here’s something more YOU’RE speed…!
(Hands her a sling shot)
Sydney: Oh joy,BEWARE MY DEADLY….UH…SLING!
Sydney is still coming to grips with having powers. Like page 159 “You know you can fly, right?” her
molestorblighthook wasn’t the first thing to come to mind.Her moving it wasn’t a worry if she can barely do ten “girly” pushups (I’m assuming she meant planted at the knees.)
+1
And then one of the guys comes in, notices the scratch marks on the table, and decides to ham it up…
“My god…who touched Sascha? WHO TOUCH MY GON?”
ooh and then breaks Sydney’s brain by reciting the Heavy’s bad math…
Don’t forget. Jesse Ventura, who claims to be a full U.S. Navy SEAL only completed underwater demolition training, but not SEAL training, but was allowed to step on the same hallowed ground as those who bleed proliferously in training, those who wear the BUDs with honor and dignity, had military training and may have been able to wag that mini gun prop with more ease than Arnold could have.
May Jesse’s honor be evaluated through the halls of the Budweiser.
For those of you who want a visual of the potential carnage if Sydney ever managed to get her hands on the full setup, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KmAOtkKf00
The Mythbuser Topiary Service is available in your area soon. Just dial 800 ShootMy3.
Nobody tell her she could easily wield two of them using the Hentorb… … …
I REALLY don’t think so.
Just gotta snake it through… … …though…It would be kinda hard to pull two triggers with one hand…but she could totally pick them up and carry them.
careful Maxima and Peggy…..you don’t know what the other 2 orbs do, YET
On the plus side (in the interests of safety here), it’s a good thing that Sydney doesn’t know either…
And then the 2 unknown orbs fire up and we find out one them is super strength and limitless ammo for what ever gun she holding.. dun dun daaa
if that happens david i am going to run to the bunker behind max and watch the hijinks
The good news is that if she’s holding both orbs she can’t hold a gun at the same time.
I suppose everyone in that room should be grateful that wonder dork doesn’t have the know how to try and use the light hook to pick that gun up.
Unfortunately it doesn’t look like she threw her back out, but she might have poped a bloody vessel.
Though with all those bayonets that thing has got to have some aiming issues.
Aim? Aim not. Engage motor, step forward and poke.
It’s a minigun. You don’t aim it, you just point the business end in the general direction of the person you’re mad at and hold the button down for a few seconds.
Except that the added weight and recoil will make it so that it won’t even be in the general direction. And yes aiming is a issue, because if you’re not even trying to aim then you’re essentially wasting bullets since you’re target isn’t even scratched.
not really any worse than without the bayonets, while it might droop a bit more than usual, but that’s because of the added weight way out there at the end of the barrel, but since all six of the blades are the same kind, and they are symmetrical around the edges with one blade to a single barrel, then it’s all balanced, thus no real difference. googling a USMC “K-Bar” knife, they weigh in a 0.70 lbs *6 each = 4.2 lbs, add in say another 3 lbs for the mounting hardware for a total estimate of 7.2lbs, yeah, it WILL throw off your aim a bit, but after you start firing, the recoil alone will cause enough inaccuracies in your aim-point, that the weight added by the blades will be negligible overall.
I was envisioning her with a minigun on the end of a lighthook.
Yeah she said she could lift her car.
poor sid I wonder if the doc will give her old vitamin M like all or us old military vets got when we where in hum kid if I were you go get you back look at right now trust me save you a life of pain later in life and boom their goes my back Grrrrrrr!
Still interested in donating for a walk-on role where I shoot the minigun, Dave. Also, does she have a name? ^_^
Seriously, that minigun needs its own “Who’s Who.”
how you you forget such things?! i don’t forget that other people can’t subtly control the current proximity of time but i do it any- uh…QUACK!
theoretically that armadrill (armor-drill, armadriller, etc.) (no i won’t stop calling it that…because it’s awesome) would make the greatest weapon ever for max if you can get it up to speed and modify both the battery and the turbine you could have a super duper chainsaw that can cut trees with equal efficiency to normies from either afar or up close (mythbusters used a mounted one of those to just trees down to see if you could cut trees down with cuts first was a tommy next was a SAW both failed while the minigun not only cut it down but set it on fire)
So… Syd’s real ‘power’ really is that she’s an Anime character in a Western-style comic, ie she gets as strong as plot requires, and as weak as the funny requires, whereas everyone else has more real-world-based maximums and minimums. Example: the tongue throw at the bank with a 200+ pound man. Leverage or no, she didn’t slam him on the ground in front of her. She tossed him for distance.
Literally everyone else in this comic cannot do that without superhuman strength.
Add to that her various Anime-inspired freakouts, spontaneously turning Chibi when the plot demands, eyes the size of a coffee cup in proportion to her face, etc. The list goes on and on, but probably her most impressive Anime power is “Anime Protagonist Invulnerability”. Other than comically running around in a freakout, getting a bloody lip, or the like, she’s got Goku’s “Blessed Idiot” plot armor: someone who is completely unable to function in day-to-day life, but does, because Protagonist.
The orbs are just bonus.
As to your first paragraph, do bear in mind that in this comic Dave makes no bones about ‘the rule of funny trumping all’. Yes, if it is funny she can lift something. And if it is funny for her not to lift something else then she can’t lift it.
Then there is your rant about anime blah blah, something or other, blah. Sorry lost interest in your drivel.
“Sorry lost interest in your drivel.”
Thanks for taking the time to read it and reply with some drivel of your own blah blah, something or other. Troll on, troll.
Oh dear, my day is ruined, a troll decided to call me a troll.
Go try and get a rise elsewhere.
You know he wasn’t supposed to reveal he had powers. His only choice was to resist (resulting in a very painful tongue yank), or to “go with it” (like they do in professional wrestling).
In other words, the only reason she threw him as far as she did was because he was helping. It has nothing to do with her being “as strong as plot requires”.
As for your second paragraph:
Okay, there are people on this very message board that have ADD or ADHD (Sydney has ADHD). Go ahead. Try to tell them that you believe they’re not supposed to be able to function in day-to-day life… just be prepared to put on your flame-retardant clothing.
Good points.
Good points.
If you are just figuring this out, I hope you’re new here. Welcome to the Grrl Power fan base. : )
*hugs*
Thank you for covering the ‘looking at things in the best possible light’ angle. Most of the time, in these circumstances, I do that as a matter of principle, even if the odds are otherwise.
But, lacking Dave’s Eint-level philosophical capabilities, tolerance can wear thin, at times.
:-/
*hugs*
I hear you. His dismissive tone caught my ire as well, at first. But he did manage to capture the essentials rather neatly, I believe. Except the orbs. He’s totally wrong about them, I’m sure. “Just a bonus” indeed. We shall see. ; )
(Frisks Yorp for stickers and burrs during vigorous scratching session. Good to go.)
*un-hugs*
*un-hugs*
Adrenaline!
Fierce adrenaline, because peppers. : )
Halo should just molestorbed it
…Now THAT would be a mental image worthy of Rule 34…
Now that I think about it a little more, that would even top Harem humping the Barrett.