Grrl Power #1295 – Well there’s your problem
As far as I can tell, a Pave Hawk is basically the same thing as a Blackhawk, just with a different loadout? But I decided on the Pave Hawk based on my deep military knowledge, AKA I googled “what helicopters does the air force use for transport” or some such.
I don’t know how likely it is to take out a helicopter with a dumbfire RPG, but it’s not like helicopters have point defense. I assume flares and probably ECM, but nothing that would help against a blind, jet-powered thing-go-boom. My impression of RPGs is that they are relatively short range, and not terribly accurate. So “a lucky shot” while probably pretty unlikely, is not entirely out of the question.
I saw someone mention that Peggy’s skintone looks weird in the last few pages. I agree, actually, but I didn’t notice because I think my drawing monitor is maybe slowly dying? I post the comic on my other, “main” monitor, but that one is intentionally set a slightly higher contrast that it should be, just cause I like the way it looks. Nothing extreme, but neither of them are really set up for Adobe sRGB color space. The cintiq really should be, and I did get one of those monitor color calibration tools and used it, but the recommended settings made everything look oversaturated, almost blown out depending on the color. It’s entirely possible I was doing something wrong, but I prefer to blame the monitor. It’s a Cintiq 34″, the largest one they ever made, but they didn’t make them for long, and I think it’s because they had manufacturing problems. The backlight is uneven if you had a solid color on the screen, though it’s fine if I’m working in CSP. Dark parts of the image shows red, speckled lines like… I don’t know, part of the screen is delaminating or something. Anyway, I’m posting this using a different monitor and the colors are better, so I’ll try adjust the weird colors going forward.
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Dabbler went somewhere tropical, in a very small bikini. As you might guess, it doesn’t stay on for long, which of course, you can see over at Patreon. Also she has an incident with “lotion,” and there’s a bonus comic page as well.
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The proper term for a lucky shot on an aircraft is “golden BB”.
hit from a dumb-fire RPG? On aircraft? Sounds like someone on the Coalition side f’ed-up since an insurgent got close enough to be in range of a HH-60, unless the FOB was located at an unusually high elevation (most of Afghanistan is below 10 000 feet, Pave Hawk’s ceiling is 14 000 feet, an RPG-7 rocket self-detonates after 3000 feet or so) there should be no chance for an insurgent to get in RPG range of a helo unless it’s taking off, landing or providing CAS, if an insurgent got close enough to fire on a landing Pave Hawk, someone’s head should have rolled…
Aircraft don’t operate at their maximum cruising altitude all the time. I know that recreational helicopters frequently operate at less than 3,000 feet, and at the very least it needs to ascend/descend at some point.
Yes you would assume that if command had KNOWN about the threat, they would have ordered the helicopter to fly higher, but if it truly was a lucky/unlucky 1-in-a-million shot, they might not have thought it necessary to take the precaution. Especially if you’ve got a bunch of macho military types who are like “we’ve been doing this for months with no incidents and it’s a nice day out, so lets just fly at 2,000 ft. with the doors open and enjoy the breeze on our faces”.
Also can a pave-hawk be pressurized for altitude like a commercial airliner? If not then rapidly ascending over 10,000 feet might have been considered uncomfortable for the crew.
the average elevation in Afghanistan is 6181 feet(1.8km), at Pave Hawk’s service ceiling 8000 feet higher the air is still very much breathable, though pilots would certainly be wearing oxygen masks at that altitude.
I’m well aware of the altitude- I’ve climbed mountains to above 14k feet. I’m also aware that there’s a big difference between “doing things by the book” and “how we operate when we actually need to get **** done”. In fact I’ve read that some unions/workforces have a tactic for a “soft strike” where they start following every single regulation TO THE LETTER and progress/production effectively grinds to halt, but everyone is TECHNICALLY still working and you can’t blame anyone for the slowdown.
Anyway, I’m also aware that at the start of any project or mission or disaster-responese or whatever, people tend to be really REALLY careful with everything that needs to be done. But over time, as nothing awful happens, human nature is to start cutting corners, taking shortcuts, not following all the rules exactly as laid down, etc etc etc.
So maybe someone’s head did roll, if a scapegoat was needed, or maybe it’s equally likely that this was just a bad situation where you couldn’t blame anyone without blaming EVERYONE, and it’s just a “**** happens” kind of scenario. That’s all I’m saying.
Commonly called a “work to rules”
The US military suffered this exact event in Afghanistan in August, 2011, when a shoulder-fired, unguided RPG hit their special operations Chinook, causing it to crash, killing all 38 people on board, 17 of which were SEALS, 15 operators and 2 bomb specialists, from Team Six’s Gold Squadron, aka the “Jedi Knights”.
You have to remember that while “most” of Afghanistan is below 10,000 feet, a significant portion of the peaks are well above this, giving the insurgents an elevated platform from which to fire. And as was mentioned in other replies, while the Chinook’s service ceiling is technically 20,000 feet, if they fly above 10,000 feet the pilots, and anyone wishing to stay awake and alert require oxygen. With 33 personnel on board, along with their combat loads and equipment, this would not have been practical.
The shot was taken from an elevated location, and was a one-in-a-million golden BB shot that sadly took many American lives, resulting in the US Military’s largest single loss of life of the entire war.
Bit late, but I just read in cast profiles.
Peggy was deployed in Iraq at the same time as Maxima, and they met in the incident that cost Peggy her leg. Maxima was injured soon after and they spent some time in recovery together and became friends.
“The front fell off. That’s not typical you know.”
” That picture is FAKE!?” is very much a true Sydney moment.
:D
Also, it looks like Peggy had a stroke of luck.
Mother Nature was on her side and stopped the rotor blade before she got decapitated.
The Golden BB is a constant risk.
The Blackhawk I went down in was hit with a single round of 7.62x54R armor piercing incendiary. The chopper has 3 hydraulic pumps spread over about a 4×4″ area and this 1 shot hit a pump, disabling it, but the shrapnel from that put small holes in the lines coming from the other 2 pumps. Redundant systems, fairly tough hydraulic lines with braided metal covers, but when luck isn’t on your side sometimes all it takes is 1 shot from something you never thought you’d have to worry about. We either got him by a single round from a burst by a machine gun, but none of the crew or us in the back saw any signs on that, so it’s entirely possible some Afghan yokel with an antique bolt action Mosin Nagant threw a round in the sky and we just happened to blunder into it’s path.
So even an unguided RPG is a threat as they have on many occasions hit choppers and will undoubtedly continue to do so.
I see others informing about range of the likely RPG and some such but I want to say good job pilot. At the range for an RPG hit and it ONLY taking out the tail that’s some quick reaction as the shot was likely aimed center mass so the explosion would handle the whole helli. Unluckily the tail still got clipped.
There is a real M-60/Shark Photo, but it’s classified. Because it was Politically Incorrect or whatever the Term dujour is, but because the Operation is still classified.
Individuals were Not SEALs or Marines, or from the Rangers. It was not in the Middle East or Asia either.
Peggy: Quit doing references less than half the table understands.
Also Peggy: I was riding in a Sikorsky HH-60 Pave Hawk… F.O.B. … Chinooks… R.P.G. …
I hope that was intentional, but people frequently just don’t realize that other people don’t share their entire reference pool.
I used to work on the 129th Air Rescue’s HH-60 Pave Hawks. They’re not just “transport” choppers. They are very specifically adapted for Search and Rescue work. The most distinctive element (from the outside) is the long “mosquito nose” probe – it telescopes out to allow mid-air refueling. The probe gets out from under the rotors far enough to insert into a drag hose on a C-130 tanker and their speed profiles just barely overlap. They’re also very unique on the inside: the pilot and copilot positions are swapped so the pilot can look back over their shoulder at the external winch used for recovering folks on the ground without landing.
If she was flying one of those, she was working hand in hand with Para-Rescue operators. Look them up. They are kind of excessively bad (pause) ass :)
DAY-UMM Peggy. Good thing that Chopper blade stopped when it did, or you wouldn’t be here to tell the tale. Just glad you are, and YES I Know this is a comic strip.
Cocktail recipe for Peggy. I call it the “Helo’ High Rotor”
2 oz Stoli 100
1 oz date syrup
1/2 oz fresh lemon juice
Shake the vodka, date syrup and lemon juice together. Rim a tumbler with a mix of smoked paprika, salt, and no more than 50 mcg of copper powder. Pour mix into the tumbler, over an ice sphere. Garnish with a sprig of bruised rosemary.
Slainte.
As much as I love a good bit of mixology… isn’t Copper slightly toxic to humans? I don’t think I have the equipment on my bar to measure out copper-powder to that fine a unit.
Definitely gonna try the rest of it though, as soon as I can buy some dates and make my own syrup.
Also, can I swap out a 1/2 part of the Stoli-100 just for Everclear? I know I’ve got some on my shelf, if the proof is that important.
I suppose you could try putting it in a mule cup, but the point of the copper – which is fine at that dosage, nih calculates 200 mcg per day as the recommended dosage for a literal infant – is to put the taste of blood back in your mouth. I generally recommend avoiding everclear, but it’s your body. Put what you want in it.
Speaking of Blackhawks: some snowboarder crashed into one that was parked… and was awarded 3.3 million!
I honestly thought that was some sort of joke when i read it.
America, you are weird and (in a slightly worrying way) wonderful.
Nice callback in the title of this one.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-140-open-mouth-insert-foot-to-just-below-the-knee/
Speaking from personal experience:
It absolutely is possible for an RPG to bring down a helicopter, including an HH- or UH-60; one of the more famous instances of this is dramatized in the movie Black Hawk Down (closely based on Operation Gothic Serpent), but RPGs have also brought down helicopters in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere.
How pilots choose (or are instructed) to mitigate this threat varies by theater. For instance, often a bird will transit at a high enough altitude to be out of range of an RPG, but not all helicopters fly at this altitude, and helicopters do eventually have to take-off and land somewhere. So it’s not common, but it does happen.