Grrl Power #1493 – Buff and wax?
I’d wager Max is thinking that it might be time to have “the talk” when she gets home. With Rowan, I mean. Going on a few dates under false pretenses is usually pretty inexcusable, but there are probably some circumstances when it’s… not terrible. Like if you just entered Witness Protection, and start dating a week later… that’s got to feel like a lot of lying. I mean it is, but that’s a case where it’s at least understandable. (Although, come to think of it, you’re probably discouraged from dating or doing anything that requires you to talk about yourself a lot within the first few months in WitPro, to give it time for your new identity to time to sink in. I have no idea either way, but it’d make sense.)
“Dating if you’re a superhero with a secret identity” is probably more of a gray area. I think you’d want to subtly but fairly quickly establish their views on the militarization of police powers and related industrial complexes – at least in the Grrl Verse. If you’re in most other super-verses like Marvel or DC, you’d want to establish their views on vigilante justice. (I think the Avengers are sanctioned law enforcement, depending on what stretch of the comic you’re reading. Maybe the Justice League too? I don’t actually know. But you rarely see Batman or Ant Man giving testimony in trials.)
Anyway, my point is, if you have a secret identity and you’re dating, figure out if you’re wasting your time and theirs early on by learning about their views on your day job. And if you have an intelligence branch as part of your superheroing outfit, do a background check to make sure your beau isn’t an agent of HYDRA or a Skrull infiltrator or some DC equivalent. Or just to make sure they’re not some influencer looking for a big vlog hit.
So you figure out if you’re compatible and that you trust them, you gotta come clean pretty early in the dating process. You can’t True Lies that shit and wait till you have a teenage kid together. Even then, I’m sure plenty of people will be all, “It’s totally unacceptable to lie on a date.” And that’s a valid… desire. Probably a little optimistic, but it’s nice to hope for a more ideal world.
So the next question is… is letting a naked alien man (what, like he’s going to get his pants wet?) wash smart latex off your back in the shower cheating? Galen (and/or Gellen) is going to get a pretty good look at Max’s bare butt. That said, until she grits back up, her butt is so shiny all he’s going to really see is his own face.
Oh, look who it is in the vote incentive. The NSFW version is finally up at Patreon. Plus a bonus pic.
I think she would get in trouble for doing this. She’d mess up the… floor of the waterfall? Is that what it’s called? The receiving pool? No, probably not that. Anyway, she’d churn things up and cause a ton of weird erosion.
Since you might be wondering, Niagara Falls is about 165 feet high, so Babezilla obviously doesn’t have to be full sized. I’d say she’s about 175-180 feet tall here?
Double res version will be posted over at Patreon. Feel free to contribute as much as you like.
Honestly wasn’t a fan of Rowan’s design, think it was the hair that got me, but I’ll take any excuse to see Max shiny and chrome. If they do have the talk I’m imagining he’s gonna see some golden boobs. That being said now whether this is cheating is a matter of perspective, from a space port hopping vagabond not really but from someone like Max from earth most definitely. So this is real surprising, good to see Max can have her flawed moments too.
Given that she wore the latex suit, Garen is just gonna see a chromatic difference.
Gellen.
Galen.
Garen.
Where was Garen at? Galen and Gellen I’ve seen, I might need to put another synonym in the wiki:
https://grrlpowercomic.fandom.com/wiki/Gellen
Some Earth languages (possibly most) have sounds English doesn’t have. They also in many cases don’t distinguish between sounds English does.
“L” versus “R” is a pretty famous one. The difference is whether at any point in the sound your tongue tip makes contact.
It’s entirely possible that the actual name Garen/Galen/Gellen uses is something that can sound like any of those depending on how rushed he is and what the listener’s native language is.
Cora’s native tongue is unlikely to be modern American English (with whatever accent). Unless she was hiding relatively modern kidnapping/pressing/hiring/etc. at that press conference.
Her parents likely spoke one of the space languages. Or whatever language has been cobbled together after a few hundred years of isolation from the kidnapped/pressed/etc. Earth natives.
English is very emphatically not Dabbler’s first language.
But Galen/Garen/Gellen is probably used to other species bobbling his name. Pretty much everyone would be.
Unless everyone is using Star Trek universal translators that can also mentally broadcast what you’re thinking into whatever the listener’s tongue is. Which makes for weirdness if you have more than one listener.
It’s not audible because then you’re trying to shout over the translator’s translation. And it still doesn’t solve more than one listener.
A Human, a Klingon and a Romulan are buddies and walk into a bar. Thirty seconds later they get into a fight because they can’t have a three way conversation.
This doesn’t show up in the shows because it’s distracting and people roll with it. As long as they don’t think about it.
Actually, L versus R is a case of English HAVING the sound and Asian languages NOT having it. That’s where the tacky old “Flied Lice” jokes came from. To most Asian speakers, R and L sound the same. Lum Invader, for example, is more properly pronounced “Ramu Invadah” You can hear it when she introduces herself, saying “Ucchi no Ramu, Da-Tcha!” (In japanese, the “M” sound is always followed by a vowel.)
How did those 3 Trek guys get to be buddies in the first place? Bonding by fighting?
The Universal Translator was one of the most miraculous technologies in Star Trek. One writer’s solution to the communication problem, iirc it first appeared in TOS episode where they found warp drive inventor Cochrane marooned on an asteroid with a friendly energy creature. I believe someone decided that the translator was OP, because it didn’t appear much and so many other communication solutions appeared in the many series. I guess the most common solution was to have an advanced civilization stoop to the audience’s comprehension level. I mean, if you want to guess what a foreign movie is about, turn off the subtitles. After watching anime for a few years I began watching some in Japanese with English subtitles because the translations made more sense than dubbing that tries to match the animated mouth movements.
Languages are interesting. Japanese uses at least 3 different alphabets that I know of. That’s got to be hard on the kids in school! It blows my mind that Chinese languages shade meanings of the same syllable using tone of voice. I don’t see myself ever understanding that any better. Then there are the sounds themselves. Talked to a guy that had visited Africa where the local language incorporated clicking sounds. There was a toddler who was about to get into mischief, when Mama uttered a loud “CLICK”. The child immediately returned to her side. Languages are amazing.
Someone: “Given that she wore the latex suit, Garen is just gonna see a chromatic difference.”
That’s where Garen came from. The post that I was directly responding to as a joke. :)
I garen-tee you that wasn’t the last time someone got confused by his name.
Pun warning. Ninjas will be incoming the next time.
Inb4 Garudo
It’s just ‘G’, like the Russian agent on NCIS:LA
Me imaging Gellen going to town on Max’s backside with one of those electric car buffer tools.
This.
Sydney did say that Maxima has screwy skin that Varia can’t gestalt with.
A power buffer is perfectly cromulent.
Or a sander then a buffer.
Buffers and sanders work through an abrasive process. I don’t think Max abrades. It might feel good though. A quality carnauba wax might add to the shine for as long as it sticks.
I’m sure there is something in the quality ranges of space turtle wax used for starship hulls that will do perfectly.
Max would not need to abrade. The question is, does the stuff she was wearing abrade? The whole idea of cleaning via abrasion is that the dirt abrades more easily than the person.
I really like this storyline less and less. I miss the story about superheroes on earth with a little outer space here and there. Will there be an actual story moving conclusion at the end? Also, this doesn’t feel like Maxima’s established character to do this. I love the comic but this storyline just feels off to me
I’d argue this is a new side of Max we haven’t seen before or at least not seen much of. She’s almost always in military boss mode. This is technically supposed to be an opportunity for her to cut loose. Everyone else is having fun with Cora’s harem of comely, buff, tall, alien dudes. Why shouldn’t she?
I do kind of agree that I don’t really like this story though but not because Max is having some fun here, her relationship with Rowan is pretty new, so I don’t know how to feel yet on that. My issue is that this feels like a pretty selfish move from everyone involved and it’s already shown it could be putting things at risk at a time when aliens are already looking at Earth as free real estate for super trafficking.
“Everyone else is having fun with Cora’s harem of comely, buff, tall, alien dudes. Why shouldn’t she?”
Well, I can think of two reasons.
1) She has a boyfriend. Harem does not. Sydney did not.
2) It’s really not in Max’s character to do so.
3) Max really seems to like Rowan, and ‘having fun’ with a bunch of buff, comely, mightily endowed space dudes would be a betrayal, just like she would likely feel betrayed if Rowan was ‘having fun’ with random other women while they are in a relationship.
Agreed on all the above.
Plus, I thought we went over all the potential benefits of Max’s winning this tournament? The access to space money and the tech they can buy with it and bring back with them seems more than enough justification for her involvement, even if anyone involved is personally getting something out of it.
Btw I know that I actually gave 3 reasons. I was trying to make a joke and stupidly left off the punchline.
The main reason for the tournament is to pay Cora back for the help she’s been giving Earth, plus having access to money that would be used beyond Earth for technologies and whatnot. But it was MAINLY because of Cora – especially given the help she’s giving Earth, including in capturing Lapha and Garram. She’s helped them with the Fel (one of the reasons there was no casualties among humans was her ship’s shields). She was also vitally instrumental in capturing Garram, who could have been turned in for the bounty on his and Lapha’s heads. Not to mention obviously rescuing Sydney, and getting Sydney back from Fracture Station in the first place, and the initial negotiations with Earth for an FTL ship. She can’t be expected to keep doing all this for free, since starship reaction mass and maintenance costs for a ship is expensive. It’s not like Cora cares at all about terran currency, and even most precious metals like gold are worthless to her. Plus while she could mine the asteroid belts for the few metals that WOULD be worthwhile, like rhodium, plalladium, and iridium, it’s still not really a fair trade for her. Having Max be a ringer in this fight, however, would definitely pay her back, plus create a lot of goodwill towards Cora and her associates. And Earth will NEED some allies out there beyond just Cora and Dabbler.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1366-ding-dang-dong/
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1367-get-rich-violently-scheme/
Oh right, that was the reason. It just feels so long ago. I guess it could just be me and arc fatigue. It’s what made me drop out of One Piece, each arc just becoming so so long, and increasing in length every time. I miss it, but at the same time not. I hope this doesn’t happen here.
Like I said, I just miss the “heroes on earth” part
She’s having fun, not ‘fun’, there is a huge difference (“That’s what she said!” :P )
When you’re naked, it’s no longer fun – it becomes ‘fun.’
Wasn’t talking about the showering, was simply about Maxi finally ‘letting her hair down’ and, well, having fun with non-colleagues
People kept accusing Maxi of having a stick up her arse, and when she shows she can banter with others, she is accused of having ‘fun’ with them
I might have been too subtle in my post.
Fun = what you are describing – playful banter and whatnot.
‘Fun’ = sexual components added in, especially when also full-on naked, like soapy shower sex-adjacent actions.
The Rowan situation is a matter of Max’s personal perspective and she does seem to hold some guilt about it, but by “fun” I literally just mean enjoying their company. Cora has staffed her ship with studs hired to serve at her beck and call and likely extends that to her guests as a courtesy. Where Max’s boundaries lie are her business but I do feel it’s unreasonable to expect her not to engage with them at all. Like Gellen is waiting outside her shower with a towel after she rejected him twice. How are we supposed to read this then? Cause I see it as dude just kind of doing his job now. Max has reaffirmed her boundary and her relationship with Rowan several times. If she decides letting him wash her back is acceptable within her relationship then any repercussions or guilt are on her. To me it just reads less like cheating and more like Max doesn’t want to be such a stick in the mud.
For the second part. I don’t have a problem with Max doing Cora a favor. I understand fully the motivation behind this I just the reality is that they’ve bit off a bit more than expected for ultimately selfish reasons and if Max hadn’t proved she was capable of doing her job I wouldn’t have liked much of this arc. Babezilla proved to be a handful Arc couldn’t contain without killing her. That’s a problem. Max, Sydney’s orbs, and supers on Earth as a whole have been revealed to this mystery alien guy. That’s probably a problem right?
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1407-a-plethora-of-powered/
Just saying it’s kind of hard to see the worth now in retrospect.
Yeah, I would agree that Gellen isn’t doing anything wrong anymore. He’s from a default polyamoric background, and got verbal consent (even if his actions previously look wrong).
Max is the one who is undermining her own moral position. If you start with “I have a boyfriend”, and then after an extra two minutes of prompting go to “I guess it’s ok for us to shower naked together”, you’re both perpetuating the stereotype that guys in our society who act like Gellen live by which is “Just keep pressuring and she’ll give in”, and also seriously undermining the implied monogomy you were calling upon to protect your relationship with the “I have a boyfriend” line. As an established feminist this seems way out of line for Max on both points.
Plus it’s a shitty thing to do to the boyfriend she’s already lying to regularly, and which she somehow both realizes she’s being shitty to in this exact scene and then decides to double down and be more shitty!
Harem has not just one, but multiple boyfriends.
This XD
Telling on themselves for not treating polyamorous partners like “real” partners XD
I still like the storyline, but I can see what you’re talking about. I haven’t counted but I feel like there have been more and longer stories dealing with the paranormal and extraterrestrial than there have been about supers.
Regarding Maxima, from what has been shown of her so far before in the story she doesn’t seem like the type to risk what she has with Rowan for a glance at Gellen’s body and a back rub. Already having to lie about her true identity to him is strain enough on their relationship without further complications.
This is a single arc, and reading day by day, week by week can always make pacing feel slow. In the future, reading back, you may well not find it feeling like quite so much of an imbalance.
At the same time the space stuff is touching onto the origin of Sydneys powers, which is…kinda pivotal to the comics plot.
I also don’t think Maxima has that much with Rowan yet. As noted, she is already lying about her true identity, they really are not that close, yet. Also, she has had WOEFULLY little dating experience or ability for most of her life, so…can’t really blame her for playing the field a little. The whole fight thing is about her stretching a little, getting to let loose. It’s effectively the same thing. We also have primarily seen her in a military setting, conversing with subordinates and clashing with Dabbler. It kinda makes sense she is a bit different in a different setting.
And most importantly, getting her back is literally a useful helping hand. I think some people are forgetting that, since the obvious amount on her back was on the previous page. She put down very strict boundaries, but removing the stuff from her back is literally something she can use a hand with.
“She put down very strict boundaries, but removing the stuff from her back is literally something she can use a hand with.”
It’s also something she could easily deal with on her own by using a scrub brush, any one of several other bathing aids, or probably anything she could imagine that Cora’s devices could 3D-print in seconds (presuming said thing isn’t already present.)
Derive (or don’t) whatever moral implications from Maxima’s acquiescence you want, but I don’t see the point in pretending that she literally NEEDED help with her back.
I know what you mean. The comic started out as a world that adds superpowers to slapstick comedy and Sydney getting to know and messing with everything. I liked the tournament because Maxima finally being allowed to let loose has been a long time coming, but the rest has gotten rather fanservice-heavy, with less and less focus on the world’s mysteries.
I liked when Sydney curtsied before Obama. I’d kinda want for her to really mess with Trump, but I also don’t really want to see that face in this comic. :-)
Honestly, best to do without any real life version of the president, only because it’s doubtful, in a world of super powers, we’d have the same one’s we have now.
In a world of supers, Trump wouldn’t have lasted a day in the white house. Some super from a persecuted group would have offed him.
Yes, record high minority employment would have been too much for persecuted minorities to risk, not to mention the persecutors.
Oh, but no murderous supers were available, so the ChiComs released Covid and the establishment uni-party shut down the economy. Trump was much too dangerous to them to allow him to run for reelection without sabotaging his first term. Then they still had to steal the 2020 election to try to keep him out of office.
Ok, I’ll stop there. Let the Trump-phobic ranting begin!
Supers are just people, with powers. Surely there would be some MAGA affiliated supers around, to suck up to the rich guy. Horrifying thought, I know.
It’s kind of hard to parody Trump, since he does that himself. Remember, the chief reason he won the first time is that he got to run against Hilary.
Well remember, he still lost the popular vote to her, so he got lucky with the electoral.
Funnily enough I don’t like the tournament because the fights have been pretty boring and lacking, the fun space hijinks are the only bits I’m actually enjoying of this chapter.
The comic takes place before Trump was elected. Or at least the flashback takes place before Trump was elected, I suppose.
Like DaveB said, being able to go all out has made Max a little sassy
Something that doesn’t seem to be discussed here yet is, what if this concession is not actually about Max’s level of interest in contact with Gellen and more about how, frequently, with great strength comes great inflexibility. She’s a supehero, so that is mitigated some. But what if she just can’t reach her own back everywhere?
Yes, there are tools that can be used. I may not be *that* strong, but I am not a super, so… However, if one cannot feel the stuff one is removing, those tools don’t really help you know when you’re done like running ones hand over the surface might. She really doesn’t want to be caught with a little bit of that stuck between her shoulder blades.
On the one hand, I sort of get the authorial desire to cut loose and have some fun with some weird ideas they’ve cooked up. I see it with…pretty much every author. Comic book writers, novelists, showrunners, etc.
That having been said, they generally have someone riding herd to keep things moving along, especially if the author/writer/creator has ADHD and a tendency to hyperfixate on whatever their interest du jour is. Granted, it’s Dave’s comic and we all knew this getting into it, but this is starting to get…if not bad, then sort of boring. It feels padded, and not in an interesting way.
As for Max’s morality and/or ethics…I think there’s a tendency toward binary thinking. You’re either polyamorous and/or pansexual with a willingness to bang everything, or you’re a “prude” and there’s not really anything in between. The pattern with the comic is that all the primaries are drifting toward polyamory, one way or another. Max is interesting because she’s the exception.
That having been said, she’s not above it all; she’s flirted with Hiro a few times and indicated if it wasn’t against regs she’d be interested in pursuing him, and she has whatever there is between her and Deus. Her normie boyfriend’s biggest advantage is that he keeps her more or less grounded compared to the other two, but could very well end up part of a polycule and serving that part of her emotional needs.
And with THAT having been said, my general feeling is that responsible adults are transparent about this sort of thing BEFORE they do it. She and Doctor Fireman might have an open relationship, but if so it hasn’t been discussed on screen thus far. Whether Max would be fine if Doctor Fireman had some sexy woman “wash his back” for him is sort of beside the point – Max is operating irresponsibly for the relationship she’s in.
She flirted with Hiro several times, true. But that was also BEFORE she started dating Rowan and started referring to him as ‘her boyfriend’ – which means it’s more than just ‘casual dating.’
I get tired of seeing a different person make essentially this same comment about each story arc in the comic. There’s no pleasing everyone. The only person who’s going to consistently be pleased by the entire comic is the author himself, and even that’s not a given. But for practically every page, there’s somebody complaining about an arc running too long, and can’t the comic get back to the part they like, and another person saying how glad they are that the previous arc is over, and how much they enjoy the current one. People enjoy the comic for entirely different reasons, which is fine, but the annoying part is that so many of them are certain that the part they enjoy is the intended focus, and everything else is a mistake or ancillary. Things exist that are for someone else’s enjoyment. It’s one thing to express an opinion, but another to act as if it’s the only valid one.
It’s part of the risk that comes with having a comments section.
People are gonna comment.
And I get rather tired seeing people police comment threads like they are the arbiter of correct commenting etiquette.
This feels super out of character.
She has a boyfriend. She’s been raised with the morality of modernish America. She’d 100% consider this either cheating or close enough to count. She’s been shown repeatedly to be rigid in her morals.
This feels like the author got horny and is twisting a character out of shape for their own pleasure.
I really don’t like this behaviour from the author.
Would getting a massage or getting some help with sunscreen also be close enough to count as cheating? Max is quite repressed, but not this much. I would even count this as character development, as her coming out of her shell a bit.
That’s where context matters. Getting a massage on a massage table from a clothed masseur, or sunscreen rubbed on the back at a beach wearing swim suits, is a completely different thing from this.
Even arguing that being naked is normal for a shower, their previous banter makes it clear this isn’t just about performing a task of getting the gunk off her back.
Getting a massage, or having someone help wash your back, is not inherently cheating. It definitely wanders in that direction when you know for a fact that the other party has a sexual interest in doing so, though. Whether it crosses the line… Well, depends on what line you and your partner set. It is valid for two people in a relationship to say that’s okay as long as it doesn’t go any further, and it is valid for two people in a relationship to say that’s not okay.
Assuming she doesn’t lie about it, it’s probably in the realm of “prefer she not make a habit of it, but not ultimately a dealbreaker this one time in particular”
As Lordviking said, context matters, and the text says he’s getting NAKED.
I think there’s a pretty major difference between getting a massage from a masseur, while you’re lying down on a massage table, or having someone put sunscreen on your back, versus having someone rubbing and washing your back while you’re naked in a shower.
They are not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. One is a LOT more sexual in nature, or at least can far more directly lead to sex, than the other.
She requires the removal of the stuff on her back. She set very clear boundaries, but is willing to let him help wash her back. You may consider it cheating, but I don’t see it.
Also, she has been shown to be rigid while in a military setting, at her job, interacting with subordinates. And even then, she absolutely still had very visible moments of being less rigid. The whole arc is about her getting to cut loose a little, for basically the first time in her life since getting powers. Even in “modernish American” morals, that’s pretty well known to go a hell of a lot further than a naked back rub with utilitarian purpose. Besides which, mistakes and drama happen.
“She requires the removal of the stuff on her back.”
The Grrl Verse has hardlight projectors and wormholes: I’m pretty sure they could make a “loofa on a stick” ($5.34 at Walmart in our boring universe).
Also, two pages ago, Galen freely admitted that his goal was to “get soapy naked access and a chance to do the sex”. So Max clearly knows what’s up, but has been inconsistently flirting/rejecting his advances. (And to Galen, those two things are probably equivalent.)
Rowan may or may not consider a “non-sexual backwash” to be cheating *in itself*, but this is definitely a sign that Max’s commitment to that relationship wavered between panels 2 and 4. There’s no chance he washes her back and leaves without incident in the next page, but I’m pretty sure we’ll see if Max regrets the “consequences of her own choices” in the next 1-3 pages.
And as you say, this is a work of fiction, so “mistakes and drama happen”. I guess we’ll see what Dave is cooking up?
Agree with you. So out of character and out of place.
Even if she wanted a massage, why wouldn’t she accept it while at least in her underwear?
If it was about the washing there are probably sponges and people of the same gender who could help. Or just keep her back blue if there really are no other solutions to get it off and it’s imperative that it not stay there.
So let’s look at who of the same gender is available:
1. Cora is even more promiscuous than Gellen, and you can be certain that if Max asked her to wash her back Dabbler would know about it before they’ve even left the shower. Or Cora would end up seducing her. Maybe both. Probably both.
2. Harem is an officer, albeit a NCO rank (Corporal), and Max asking her to wash her back probably borders on sexual harrassment.
3. If Max asked Sydney to wash her back, that would probably bring the same concerns about sexual harrassment, not to mention that Sydney would probably get an aneurysm just from the thought of doing something like that with Max. She almost got one when Harem asked her to disrobe after the pool incident.
4. Digit is a wildcard here, and I’m not sure where she fits into the Archon hierarchy, so this might potentially not be sexual harrassment, but she’s even more scatterbrained than Sydney, if that’s even possible, so that might bring other issues.
They’re participating in secret, so they can’t ask anyone who isn’t already on the ship (Max is likely famous for taking down a Fel carrier with 1 attack, which is why they had to enter her under an alias), and they can’t bring anyone back from Earth because they don’t really have the ability. Harem can’t teleport anyone with her besides Varia (who again has he whole sexual harrassment problem), and I don’t think it would be a good idea to open another gateway just to bring someone to wash Max’s back.
Eh, if it was necessary to remove something toxic on her back it would probably not constitute harassment.
If it’s not toxic there isn’t much excuse to not wait- DaveB’s comments also brought up that there was some kind of machine that would manually strip it off.
Re #4: And with Digit doing it, there would probably be harpoons involved… Of course, Max is tough enough to deal with that…
1. Max is straight
2. This supposedly isn’t cheating because it’s not sexual, remember?
3. See #3, both are straight, and they already shower in the same room.
4. You’re reaching.
Methinks you just want her to f*ck Gellen.
The obvious solution, since back brushes do not seem to exist on Cora’s ship, is to create a holographic hard-light image of Rowan (or Maxima, or some neutral-looking humanoid asexual figure) to wash her back for her.
:)
Huh. I think that would actually work.
Yes, since apparently I need to see a psychiatrist about my belief that back brushes exist. Holographic hard light back-washing AI partners is the only acceptable alternative. :)
I feel like the logic here is ridiculous. They are all adults. Gellen made a proposition. Max rejected him several times and set a clear boundary. Now if she were truly uncomfortable she’s more than capable saying that and if she needed any of her trusted friends and coworkers to wash her back I doubt that would be a problem either. Cause again, they are adults. I feel like these scenarios rely on everyone losing all control of themselves under the power of horniness.
I really wonder about people sometimes… Does their anxiety about sex reflect their own behavior? There’s plenty of people I know that I like as people, think are physically attractive, and yet would not have sex with them. Are people really willing to have sex with just about anyone they find remotely attractive, should they find themselves in circumstances, or is that just porn logic and unrealistic, possessive anxiety? Can people not control themselves? Is this even something that requires control? Is the world just full of people pretending to be adults, that don’t actually qualify in any way other than age?
To answer your questions…
For some people definitely yes, for the rest also possibly yes.
Some people absolutely yes, some people absolutely not.
Again, some people can: I’d say majority overestimates level of control they have.
Depending on people, yes.
Without a shadow of doubt, yes.
I’d recommend reading more about human sexuality, since there’s vastly larger variance than say, preferences people have for foods. Also it might answer lot of questions, some you didn’t even know you had. I’m not an expert of any level but you might find demisexuality describing yourself to some degree.
Does their anxiety about sex reflect their own behavior?
Yes. Largely yes, for most of human history. :)
Are people really willing to have sex with just about anyone they find remotely attractive, should they find themselves in circumstances?
I’m sure there’s a cost-benefit analysis that goes on, but I would not be surprised if that answer to this is also yes at least a slight majority of the time. Depending on the sexual mores and taboos of the society.
Can people not control themselves?
Probably has a very tied-in relationship to sexual mores and taboos, again. I think a lot of people probably do not control themselves remotely close to how much they SHOULD.
Is this even something that requires control?
Depends on if you want a stable civilization or something closer to how sex exists in primal nature. You probably shouldnt want something close to how sex exists in PRIMAL nature (nature without any strong social structures) for the most part.
Is the world just full of people pretending to be adults?
Yes. :)
that don’t actually qualify in any way other than age?
Bold of you to assume that even age changes the metric of maturity and controlled behavior. :)
Others have answered your questions already, but I would add a few details.
The range of variation in sexual behavior among humans is staggeringly huge. Much more than most people are aware of. We all seem to go about life presuming that everyone around us is more or less like us, and being wrong.
Averages exist, of course, but the bell curve is very flat, if you get what I mean. National culture, gender, social class, religious background all matter to some degree, as does simple inborn neural-based variation.
Most people, I think, take the norms and mores of their culture as a kind of default setting, and set their own deviations as modifications of that. People seem to rely on pressure from other people to not go asocially selfish and start hurting each other. Yes, peer pressure sucks, but it probably keeps us all alive.
Sex is no exception, esp. among young unattached people. They jam in small groups in order to find out what their peer group finds acceptable or unacceptable. That, hopefully, sets some sort of boundary on what they could get away with. I think a very large number of people (majority?) would engage in some form of sexual exploitation if not for that kind of social pressure.
There are places, esp. educational institutions, where that kind of pressure, esp. for males, is nearly absent, and it’s no fun.
It’s less about whether they are adults capable of consent and self control and more about whether this is an uncharacteristic form of “would Max or her boyfriend consider this to be cheating or at least very disrespectful to her partner without a serious discussion about boundaries first?”.
Given the context and the unnecessary nudity it seems pretty likely that the answer might be yes.
Or, and hear me out here, Maxima could use the hyper-advanced technology known as a ‘back brush.’ I know that Cora’s extremely advanced ship might not have EVERY bit of futuristic technology available, but they might have progressed to the level of ‘Sponge/loofah/bristled-brush-on-a-stick.’
I feel like everyone’s forgetting that Max previously had the disguise removed using a pair of floating devices. The shower is a choice, not the only available option. From the previous page’s blog post:
You are totally correct and I COMPLETELY forgot this!
I suppose it is too much to hope that we will get a chance to see Rowan’s sister again. :(
I’m sure she’ll be at the wedding
Now I’m imagining the guests, with all the ER docs and buff firefighters on the groom’s side, and all the Amazonian supers on the bride’s side. There’s gonna be *so* *much* hooking up at the reception.
Now I’m imagining Shioh and Math hooking up: Math thinking “I’ve got a hot one,” while Shioh is thinking “Dance, my little puppet, dance!”
The trial testimony part rarely appears in police procedurals too. I do remember one very old Captain America where he was in court, but this was when his secret identity was dating AIM’s defense attorney. And there was a ridiculous Spider Man short in which MJ (when she was married to him) was on a jury for a criminal he had caught. He didn’t show up to testify so the defense was that Spider Man had actually done it, and MJ hung the jury in a blatantly unethical miscarriage of justice.
Daredevil and She Hulk saw a lot more trial scenes somehow.
“Somehow”? Their secret identities are both legal professionals. I would honestly be surprised if they WEREN’T in court all the time.
That would be a tough one. Can’t very well say you know the masked superhero’s secret identity. At the same time, you have knowledge that the defendant’s case is full of BS.
Was it a miscarriage of justice tho? If she hung the jury, then he gets retried (likely) without her there, so a different jury gets to decide his fate. If anything, the 11 other jurors were obviously wrong in their verdicts, so she’d be the one keeping the obviously guilty criminal off the streets.
Gellen saying that a woman like Maxima should have a million boyfriends heavily implies that where he is from men show a lot of restraint when it comes to women who are “only” 7s. The only men who would reject a 7 in our world are the super rare 10s and maybe the 9s, so there’s not a lot of difference in a woman’s dating pool size if she’s 7+.
I know he didn’t say that 7s wouldn’t be able to get a million boyfriends too, but that is implied because he’s obviously awestruck by her and wanted to express that.
In Mutants & Masterminds lingo, going to guess Max has both advantages in attractiveness, putting her above a 10.
Though many would likely say looks are subjective.
Tbh. Maxima is not my type at all because she looks very masculine and the type of flirting that you typically see in American franchises, where emotions are typically a mix of being blunt, seductive and/or aggressive, is not my thing at all as well. So yeah, it is all very subjective, and I got hooked on this comic mostly through Sydney’s antics instead.
For me it depends on how she’s drawn. For example, she looks terrible in the last panel. Not that I think she is the hottest being all ripped either.
Reminds me of how Wonder Woman is supposed to be the most attractive woman in DC universe, if not just top 5, but get the wrong artist or even just an artist who thinks “No, she should look like she’s huge and muscled with bulk” and I just think “Soooo…she’s not beautiful then?” :p Objective yes, but I think there’s some general rules for some all around attractiveness.
Also, not sure if Max is supposed to be that hot, or just well, hot because she’s fit…
Yeah, I agree.
Being able to draw a woman who would be a ‘universal 10’ is a lot easier to do in all-text media than anything where there’s an actual image involved. Especially since people do have different tastes in what qualifies as a 10. Some people would think a fitness model physique is a 10, others would want the woman to be much more petite and demure, and so on. It’s impossible to accurately portray a ‘universal 10’ in this respect. Just like, as someone else mentioned, people saying that Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of the 5 or so most attractive women in the DC universe, while realistically speaking, some people would think her being 6’0″ – 6’2″ (that’s the general average she’s been in the comics, although in silver age she was 5’8″) or having an overly athletic physique would throw her out of the running, while others would think a brunette is not a 10, and has to be a blonde, or the ethnicity might need to be different, etc.
It’s one of those few examples where it sometimes makes it easier to accept if it’s just a ‘word of god’ statement that she truly is one of the sexiest women on Earth. Although I did once read a fanfic where the main character was, in the story, attractive to everyone, and she actually lampshaded it by complaining about how it’s categorically IMPOSSIBLE for every single guy to be attracted to her since people by their very nature have different tastes on what is ‘sexy’ or ‘attractive’ so there must be some sort of weird magic going on to make reality take a holiday on this basic concept. :)
Haha, yeah, remember when Dave drew that postman guy on a bicycle and below the comic he admitted that he didn’t manage to make him look attractive? XD If even a very experienced artist can mess this up then it must be very very hard to pull off. Maxima’s cheeks don’t do her any favors, but the design works very well when she’s meant to come across as a tough leader, so you can’t have it both ways I guess.
Btw: You can gauge a woman’s attractiveness by how many other women cosplay as her (and maybe divide by the franchise’s popularity).
Statistically, that’s implied. Due to a fixed potential pool (albeit a very large one) dating inevitably become a zero-sum game (which is what a lot of people think is wrong with it).
Personally, I’m more into Sydney than I am into Max. I don’t want to put numbers on them, but I know where my preferences go.
Oh, Max is a cheat, gross
Is it cheating? Maybe. Is it questionable? Definitely.
Maxima is clearly enjoying her time away from duty, but it feels odd for the same woman who scared half a bar of potential suitors to be suddenly okay with someone she already turned down following her to the shower and talking about how big and productive his dick is.
It seems to become a common theme among those hanging out with Cora’s group. Same for Sydney who went from ‘modesty mummy’ in a female only shower area to making innuendo quips about herself and Frix while in public.
I think if there’s one thread that runs through the entire comic, it’s people becoming more sexually open and adventurous, often due to the influence of a certain succubus and her associates. I think both the author’s attitudes towards sexual ethics inform that progression, and that they’re clearly different from those of many of the readers, who somehow get caught off-guard by the events that occur in a comic in which a literal succubus is one of the core protagonists. It’s not that readers weren’t warned, they just ignored all the warnings. Or they’ve just been conditioned by mainstream media to expect certain things to just never happen, for stories to just never go some places, no matter whether or not they logically would, given the pieces in place. They expect a story starring a succubus to never actually go anywhere sexually, because that wouldn’t be allowed on traditional media channels. Except now it is, and people just haven’t adapted.
Or they are using this story and its comments section as an opportunity to share and discuss their opinions. Because that’s fun.
Me: “Hey, it’s a bit weird that Maxima is seemingly suddenly okay with co-ed showering with someone who’s been openly leering and flirting.”
Torabi: “AHA, I BET YOU’RE ONE OF THOSE PRUDES! YOU PROBABLY HATE SEX, DON’T YOU? YEAH, I BET THE IDEA OF NUDITY IS SOMETHING UTTERLY INCONCEIVABLE TO YOUR MIND!”
So, first you accuse me of strawmanning your position, when I neither accused you of anything, or even replied to you. And now this. If you neither actually read my post nor understood it, it might have been wiser just to remain silent. You’re making a fool of yourself.
Your entire post was about how people who disagree with you are oblivious to the comic and its progression. You reduce everyone in that category down to prudes and people who don’t expect a succubus to enjoy sex. You make the assumption that everyone has been “conditioned by mainstream media” and they “just haven’t adapted”. Your argument is filled with baseless assumption after baseless assumption, and it’s in a response thread to me saying that this singular instance feels out of touch with Maxima’s character arc to date.
You’re the fool here.
Please don’t strawman this. I never said even a quarter of the things you’re accusing me of.
Blobble Yobble Yobble.
Since Maxima ostensibly has a Top Secret security clearance (and probably codeword as well) I would be surprised if Rowan hadn’t been vetted already. And probably more throughly than normal considering ARC-SWAT’s super, tech, and magic resources.
Ark-Light has probably already secretly checked him out, at the very least, to be sure he isn’t secretly part of some clandestine evil organization or anything. After all, if they keep dating, she will eventually have to tell him; otherwise, things could get strained.
This trip gives Max a level of relaxation that she could not get on Earth, even in disguise.
Vetted by who? What earth agency has the resources to vet an alien vigilante/adventurer? It comes down to 1) Max trusts Dabbler, 2) Dabbler trusts Cora, and 3) Cora trusts Gellen or whatever his name is.
Sorry, missed that you were talking about vetting Rowan, the firefighting doctor back on esrth. Absolutely yes he’s been thoroughly vetted by now.
After reading the comments to this lovely episode, all I can say is…
“Told you they were prudes here”
Dabbler 729.4
I think it’s 50/50 prudery and misogyny
Rowan would be nothing but a smoking crater if he got a rubdown from some hot naked (Text says Gellen is getting naked) big boobie woman in the shower and you would 100% understand. Get this “y-y-you’re just a misogynist” crap out of here, she’s CHEATING.
Max didn’t even “smoking crater” Xuriel after she assaulted her. She put her through a wall, sure, but she knew she could survive that, given their previous fight(s). She let her remain on the team, and now considers her a close, valuable friend, even if she annoys her. Frequently. I think you’re not giving Max much credit as a reasonable person who exerts a great deal of self-control, and gives people time to explain themselves, even if her initial reaction is anger and breaking inanimate objects. In her own words, “despite all evidence to the contrary, [she’s] not a prude“. People, both within and without the comic, extrapolate sexual attitudes from her behavior that she doesn’t feel are accurate. Time and time again she acts outside the stereotype people imagine her occupying, and rather than recognize that it’s not accurate, each time she’s accused of acting out of character. How many times does it have to happen before people consider that their first impression is what’s wrong, and not her portrayal?
“In her own words, “despite all evidence to the contrary, [she’s] not a prude“.”
To be fair, her ‘prudishness’ is compared to a bunch of other people who are, by ANY stretch of the imagination, almost the complete opposite of prudes. So even being ‘normal’ in her sexual attitude, or ‘slightly’ prudish, would look EXTREMELY prudish in comparison. Sort of like the Overton Window but for sex.
But yes, showering with some other guy while she’s in a relationship with someone who she refers to as her boyfriend does seem to be wildly out of character for her, from what we’ve actively seen in the comic. Not that we know what’s happened offscreen, but there’s been enough reason to extrapolate from the comic so far that this is not something she’d normally ever typically do.
Does Gellen know how to use a car buffer to rub Max’s back?!?
In the banter I’m seeing here, Gellen has expressed respect and admiration for both Maxima and her boyfriend.
He also understands what she is capable of, and she has clearly expressed her boundary.
Furthermore, I think it’s worth noting that *he* was the one who specifically said “nonsexually.”
Would Gellen love to get sexual with Maxima? Yes. Is he willing to offer honest friendship and a shoulder without pushing for more? In this case, I think so. And I think Maxima would find that helpful right now.
I honestly hope it doesn’t go any further than that, though. There are too many guys who act “nice” in an effort to get more and then complain about being “friendzoned,” while the woman feels betrayed because she thought they had a genuine friendship. I’d hate to see that happen here.
Given how respectfully Frix behaved with Sydney at the start, combined with this recent little conversational arc with Gellen and Max, it’s abundantly clear that Cora took vetting the personalities of her crew just as seriously as their physical & professional capabilities.
Also, I hope this inspires Max to bring Rowen into the know. She deserves to have some simplicity in her personal life.
I’ve known several guys who boasted about having gotten into a sexual situation by offering explicitly ‘nonsexual’ services and then using their target’s erogenous zones to let them get a bit farther and a bit farther until, oh, hey, that’s full intercourse without protection there. So I do not put any more trust in his offering the service as explicitly nonsexual any more than Max does.
Yes, ‘boasted’, in other words, lied out their arsehole after absolutely nothing happened, and now the poor woman is considered an easy lay or a slut by you and their other ‘friends’
Oh wait, by ‘known several guys’, you mean you, right? When a woman clearly said ‘no’ to sex, you took that as a challenge to ‘convince’ her to have unprotected sex with you anyway
Jesus christ, talk about an ad hominem instead of engaging in the discussion.
You are assuming extreme levels of malice here, when the whole point is that the Gellen has been pushing for sex repeatedly, hasn’t taken no for a reason to back off and is now trying to get closer to her using “innocent” services. Perhaps he is serious and will be professional, but his behaviour and persistence gives plenty of reason to think he’s the sort of guy like Some Ed described.
You however jumped straight to basically accusing them of being a sexual predator when they explicitly stated that they don’t trust this sort of behaviour and sees it as just another avenue of trying to coerce sex. You also pulled their apparant misogyny and view on womwn completely out of your ass there, at no point did he condone the behaviour or refer to those guys as friends.
Made another response to this, but the comment sections seems to have eaten it.
Some Ed comment did not endorse this behavior, they never mentioned these people were friends, never implied they viewed women the way you described. They said they didn’t trust this sort of behavior and don’t think Max would either.
Suffice to say, characterizing someone as a misogynist, and basically a sex predator, for voicing their distrust with someone who would use a massage or back scrub as a way to try and coerce sex is very gross behavior.
> Oh wait, by ‘known several guys’, you mean you, right? When a woman clearly said ‘no’ to sex, you took that as a challenge to ‘convince’ her to have unprotected sex with you anyway
That’s literally what Gellen is doing here though? This behavior from like, a college jock, would be explicitly coded as sexpest if it happened in any other context. Girl says she has a boyfriend and you respond with “he’s not here/doesn’t have to know/everyone here sleeps around” and then you hang out outside the shower stall when she’s showering?
Come on.
I do kinda hate how the comic seems to champion an outlook of ‘If a woman clearly and unambiguously rejects your advances multiple times… just keep trying, and eventually she will say yes!’
Yes, thank you!!
I appreciate what people have to say about Maxima and whether or not this is in character, or cheating. The only way we know that is finding out because we don’t have all the facts on whether this is an arrangement that Rowan would be okay with.
The real icky bit for me is the way it accidentally demonstrates the aggressively and frustratingly and annoyingly pervasive idea that is everywhere – and literally gets women attacked all the time – that it’s flirting and okay to keep bothering a woman after she said no or not to because she will eventually say yes, instead of the reality – it feels de-humanizing to have someone push boundaries of people who already said no and force them through the sometimes scary and escalating process of having to say no again over and over until you say yes.
I loved that Max is a strong female lead that is the moral compass in her band of misfits. There was a lot of panel time devoted to Rowan and that he made her feel special and that he liked her for who she was. Regardless of whether anything sexually explicit happens past this point, this is disrespectful to your partner at best and emotional cheating otherwise. This feels like either her subconsciously sabotaging her relationship or showing that she isn’t emotionally mature enough to be in a committed one.
“This feels like either her subconsciously sabotaging her relationship or showing that she isn’t emotionally mature enough to be in a committed one.”
Yeah, I agree: this scene feels less about whether it is or isn’t “cheating” and more that Max is dissatisfied with her double-life (panel 4) and took a step away from Rowan and her basic human persona. The smile in panel 8 is not an “oh good, I’ll finally get a clean back!” smile.
I’m beginning to wonder if back brushes not only do not exist in the comic, but do not exist in real life given how many people have commented some position similar to ‘this is the only way for Maxima to get a clean back from showering.’ :)
Here, pour this lime juice into this coconut milk, drink all of it, and take a nap. Call me in the morning if you are still imagining these “brushes”.
I’m still imagining these brushes are real, but on the plus side, my bellyache is completely gone now. And it only cost me a dime.
Im sorry. But you get a healthy couple all nekky in a shower, a back rub is going to lead to other things. That’s just the nature of the game.
They aren’t a healthy couple, however. They’re a pair of people, one of whom is interested in a hookup, and one who has indicated that she’s definitely not. Will it lead to other things? Maybe, but we haven’t seen that yeet.
Ehhh, I don’t think Rowan would like Gellen washing Max in the shower. Especially since its not really platonic, he has made his sexual interest clear. Most people would think this is cheating.
The plot has made it clear that Max and Rowan have feelings for each other but I don’t recall anywhere that it has been established that it is an exclusive relationship. For all that we know Rowan is back home getting his freak on because he and Max haven’t had the “Let’s not date anybody else” talk. Yeah, I know it doesn’t fit well with what we have seen of Rowan but it seems like people might be projecting onto Max.
Yeah that, or maybe they have had the conversation about what they consider cheating and decided that getting your back washed by a hot naked alien is not cheating. They are mature adults, they can communicate.
In story, supers are a thing known to the general public. There is bound to be an article in Cosmopolitan. “Honey, I’m a Super. Coming Out to Your Significant Other”. Just saying, there is probably a guide to informing the person with whom you are having a relationship.
…Super heroes in lots of settings tend to be in the “They aren’t officially sanctioned, but we aren’t putting effort in to stopping them because PR/collateral damage/that one rich person that mysteriously really likes them and can casually wave around more cash than the US government can print.
…Do Cora’s shower facilities come with pneumatically powered buffing/sanding/grinding tools for individuals with skin tough enough for that?… Picturing stuff like that, non-super masseuse using power-tools to do their work on a super-client would make for a funny Sydney-tangent/fan-service page/vote incentive.
“is letting a naked alien man (what, like he’s going to get his pants wet?) wash smart latex off your back in the shower cheating?”
YES!?
Within the context of the wider universe, in the comic, apparently that’s an unusual view. I think it’s absurd to project any set of unspoken rules onto society as if they’re universally agreed upon, when it’s quite clear that different people are running different sets of rules. In a healthy relationship, and a healthy society, people talk those things out, explicitly agree upon the rules, and don’t expect to be able to hold people to rules they haven’t actually agreed to. You can’t “cheat” if there aren’t any actual rules.
Guess Maxima can take a crap in that shower. Nobody has explicitly said she can’t.
Given that it’s a space shower on an advanced alien space ship, she probably can, and it will dispose of the waste and sterilize itself.
I feel like in your typical Big Two type superhero world, your masked vigilantes would at best file Amicus Briefs to the court as a 3rd party within the case but (due to obvious circumstances) can’t be considered a reliable witness for either side who might still have important information and context for the case.
Like Batman filing one about Jervis Tetch and his Mad Hatter mind control technology in a case of some random civilians who got conscripted into his crimes. Spider-man producing the evidence he got that let him track down the Chameleon or Mysterio in one of their schemes. A lot of the heroes would probably also include mitigating circumstances for those villains who weren’t malicious in their actions, just desperate.
The comments always get so beyond the comic by the time I get to start typing!
What do I want to say here?
1.: NO POWER TOOLS IN THE SHOWER! Use Comet or “scrubbing bubbles”.
2.: All of that power and she can’t reach her back? She doesn’t look musclebound.
3. Cora’s ship was introduced as half party barge. This tailgate mission has seen most of the Grrls pick a crewman to hook up with. But with the possible exception of Sydney & Frix, I don’t see permanent relationships developing. After all, Cora is sharing her crewmen, so they all have open relationships with Cora.
4. As such, I think Gellen is demonstrating the ship’s hospitality by trying to ensure that Maxima is having a good time as one of their passengers. He is also shamelessly attracted to her. But when this mission is over Gellen will fly away again with Cora. That’s his job, and wouldn’t all of you horndogs out there love to try it?
5. I’ve had to re-read the shower scene dialogue to accept this conclusion, and to remember that these guys wouln’t be on Cora’s crew if they didn’t accept the ship’s cosmopolitan mores.
6. The tournament arc is providing Maxima an opportunity for character growth, so it is no mistake that she is missing her still relatively new boyfriend. She needs self control to deal with the innumerable ogglers she meets out in public, and to do her job as a field commander, so it’s good that she is adding relational tools to her kit beside anger.
7. Dave B. today foreshadowed that when Maxima gets home she will begin to brief Rowan on her real job and identity. Story lines will really open up after that.
8. Digit, Digit, what will she do if Maxima asks her for a space-loufa?
Max: “What should I know before I use this?”
Digit: “Well, it’s better than a regular loufa. It’s like velcro for your epidermis! It bonds to dirt and dead skin cells!”
Max: “It feels a little scratchy. How does it work?”
Digit: “Hold it like this. When you apply pressure it will launch millions of micro-harpoons to capture dirt and skin cells!” Big smile!
For what it’s worth, I don’t look musclebound. But I am inflexible enough that I cannot reach significant parts of my back. From hearing people talk, that’s not all that uncommon. Stretching exercises can help, but they can also hurt. My issues are more from injuries from stretching exercises under the guide of a yoga instructor who wasn’t really trained that well… and most of them aren’t. My ex went through yoga teacher training and the classes that taught how to keep students from injuring themselves and how to modify positions for different limitations people have were all specialization classes, not core classes. Personally, I find that patently absurd, but it’s still apparently the way things are a lot of places.
Gee, I hope you are not in pain. Too many experts out there who don’t know what they are doing.
I doubt Maxima is inflexible either, but she is military. You should find any hygiene tools she needs in her duffle bag. She is also used to group shower facilities. But here imo she is throwing Gellen a consolation prize, because she can throw him out easily and knows that he understands that now. He is still hoping to get his permissions upgraded.
All I know is if Rowan had done what Max is doing right now she’d had tossed him out on his ass and called it cheating.
So, yeah…
This. Miss Moral Outrage over here would flip her lid.
The only way I see this be excusable if it turns out holding back all this time
had some weird psychological sideeffects, letting loose means Max is currently
not quite in control and she later apologises Rowan
What makes you so certain about that? I don’t think her interactions with the other men in the cast support that theory.
I think that what you said is a bit of a strawman argument. The other men in the cast are not in a relationship with Maxima.
I think Maxima would justifiably see it as a huge betrayal of her trust if Rowan did the same exact thing.
The closest thing I’ve seen in this comic that betrays the trust of someone else in a relationship was Mr. Amorphous having sex with Jiggawatt, and that’s at least arguably excusable given that they were LITERALLY under a type of lust spell thanks to Parfait’s out-of-control lust aura.
You are the worst of all these commentators, seeing how you are some sort of legal person and all
You are making claims about both Maxi Rowan that haven’t happened yet, and then justifying the claims by… what is that word? oh yeah, ‘strawman argument’
You do understand what a ‘strawman argument’ is, right? It’s where someone misrepresents, exaggerates, or recontextualizes an opposing view to make it much easier to attack. In other words, instead of arguing against what the other person ACTUALLY SAID, they build a weaker, fake version of the argument, much like a dummy made of straw, so they can defeat THAT argument instead.
Claiming that the argument presented was that Maxima has had these types of interactions with other men in the cast is creating a weaker, fake version of the argument that ‘Maxima would consider it cheating if Rowan did the same thing that she’s doing right now.’ Especially given that Maxima regularly has talked, in the comic, about her showing a dislike and disgust at men being sexist (such as the discussion during the pre-Vehemence dinner).
On the other hand, I am NOT making a strawman argument. I am making a supposition with an example, based on existing evidence to support that supposition. A strawman argument would not be based on existing evidence that supports the supposition. Claiming that Maxima, based on EVERYTHING she’s said in the comic until this point, would see Rowan showering naked with other women while they are in an actual relationship (where she refers to him as her boyfriend, which typically means some sort of exclusivity between them), is a valid supposition – not a weaker version of the argument.
[Pssst! Hey Guesticules… never get into an argument with a lawyer. They literally do this for a living.
MUHAHAHAHAHA
agred
Agreed
The matador of tugging on superman’s cape indeed !
Maxima trust is one heck of a woman… And SO SHINY
I don’t care if I’m being a horny magpie. She’d squish me physically, verbally and emotionally… But I can dream
And I just lost all respect for Max, and I really liked her too :(
Scrubbing someone’s back doesn’t mean anything besides scrubbing their back.
Its cheating. When someone continuously asks if they can fuck you in the shower, and you tell them no, and they follow you to the shower, and they keep asking, and you invite them into the shower with you, you cheated. Anyone believing otherwise is just…a tragically immature and selfish person
In your mind, simply talking to them ever again is cheating
Grow the fuck up
When Sydney punched Dabbles in her (whatever it was) while they were (semi) naked in the shower ‘cheating’?
What about when Dabbles squeezed Maxi’s bewbs together in a sexy fun-house mirror ‘cheating’?
Yeah this is ridiculously out of character and inappropriate for Max. It would be one thing if the guy hadn’t repeatedly, exhaustively established that he very, very much wanted to fuck her. It would still be weird, but that’s all, just weird. Harem is available, Sydney is available, etc, and anyone suggesting that members of the same military squad or team washing some hard-to-remove gunk, or chemical off another squad member’s back might be “sexual harassment”… right. That’s not absolutely bonkers at all. They definitely don’t already share showers on a regular basis or anything… /S
No, this is just really inappropriate. And I’m dying to know why this suit can’t be removed with some alien nanotech or something similar. They literally have hardlight based prosthetics, etc. Maxima had options other than “invite the super sexy alien man who desperately wants to fuck me and rub his hands over my naked body…to strip naked and rub his hands all over part of my naked body.” She just didn’t choose to use any of those options. I’m sure she’d be delighted to hear about Rowan needing to get his back scrubbed by a super sexy, naked female firefighter, who desperately wanted to fuck him. Delighted. /S
This may not be cheating, in a very technical sense, but it’s definitely not the behavior of someone thinking “how would my [BF/GF/Husband/Wife] feel about this?” Not even close.
The only way this could make any kind of sense, and not be totally, utterly messed up behavior by Max, is if she actually has some kind of massive bruise or something, and she’s hoping Gellen will keep it quiet, because she doesn’t want to alarm her team.
I’m pretty sure my boyfriend would have quite a problem with my letting some buff dude wash my back while I’m nekked in the shower.
And I’d have the same problem with him doing that in reverse. Definitely would consider it inappropriate either way.
Also, last time I’ll bring it up I promise, but everyone defending this seems to have forgotten that back brushes and ‘loofa-on-a-sticks’ exist. :)
Yes, back brushes exist, there is one right beside now, isn’t there?
But unless shown to be ‘at hand’, then what difference does it make?
Yes … clearly she has no choice but to have a naked buff space-dude in the shower with her. My apologies. :)
Cheating happens. It happens a lot. In real life, it’s not a good thing in the social sense, but it will never, ever, stop. It’s just part of human nature, and I think there are evolutionary reasons in why it happens. Apparently, three out of five men vs. two out of five women will cheat.
However, this is a fantasy webcomic and the social rules in it can be very, very, different.
I’m wondering if Max likes it from behind, or even in the rear.
I love (read: hate) how everyone has strong, diverging opinions on what constitutes “cheating”. You can’t cheat if the rules haven’t been established, and every relationship gets to establish their own rules. Society doesn’t have a single, consistent set of rules that everyone abides by, and when it comes to intimate relationships, that’s for the best, because people are not identical, and have different needs and boundaries. Forcing everyone to live and shape their relationships under a single set of rules is only going to work for a small number of people.
Would it be any less “cheating” if it had been one of the women in the cast that has expressed sexual interest in Max in this scene? I think the people suggesting that reveals something about them and their cultural biases. And the people claiming this is out of character for Max only have an extremely limited insight into her character, which the comic seems to constantly challenge. At what point should people accept that it’s not the character that’s being portrayed inconsistently, but that their perspective on the character was wrong in the first place? Each page has the opportunity to reveal new things about the characters, and they shouldn’t be limited by the impression given by their first appearance.
I mean, to be fair, the question was asked and answers were given. You yourself state that people have different rules and can establish their own boundaries. So when asked the question, I’m not sure why you’re then hating the fact that said people having strong opinions when answering.
That said, I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say it was cheating. I’d argue that most people who are dating though, would say that being naked in a shower with someone, especially someone just previously attempted to get into your pants, to wash your back is stepping over the line.
Let me clarify then: what I hate is that people seem to be oblivious to the fact that different people have different rules and boundaries, and think that their own are universally held and agreed upon, when they so clearly aren’t.
To quote Maxima: “Kettle much?”
Talk about moving goalposts and whataboutism… For one thing, as far as we’re aware, Max leans to the hetero side of the sexual orientation scale. She’s never been affected by dabblers super succubus powers, and she’s only expressed strong sexual interest in men thus far, unless I’ve forgotten something. (Which is possible) For another…the goalpost jump from “guy that just repeatedly articulated his desire to fuck her, while emphasizing how good he would be” to “any individual that has ever expressed any sexual interest in Max whatsoever” is freaking huge. A female character/team member that finds Max attractive≠a male that just got done telling Max how awesome his huge dick is. Stop it. Seriously.
And for another, Sydney is there. Sydney has no desire to bed Max. There. Nonexistent, false-equivocation-based problem solved.
But ultimately, all the goalpost moving and whataboutism in the world is immaterial and irrelevant. Given the choice between (A) “Max gets her back scrubbed by a naked female team member who has found Max sexually attractive in the past” and (B) “Max gets her back scrubbed by a naked male stranger who -immediately prior to getting naked and scrubbing- just repeatedly propositioned Max and emphasized how skilled he was in bed, and how impressive his penis was” which one do you think Rowan would be more comfortable with? Assuming Rowan is representative of a baseline, “boring” heterosexual male? All the commenters saying it’s cheating, or inappropriate, etc, would likely answer that Rowan would prefer “(A)” I’m sure there are people who would answer “(B)” but they are most definitely outliers.
I feel like there’s an awful lot being conflated and left unexamined there. Whose orientation matters, for the purpose of calling it “cheating”? The person scrubbing or the person being scrubbed? Or both? Whose desires are relevant to the activity to make it acceptable or not? Why would the audience’s evaluation of Rowan’s presumed preferences take precedence over Max’s, who’s presumably had far more discussion with him on the relevant topics than the audience has seen?
Commenters are projecting their own values, rules, and feelings onto the characters, and getting upset that the characters have different ones than they do. I predict disappointment in that approach to be the norm.
Noone cares about Rowan. Quit trying to shoehorn him into Max’s life. Rowan is plain generic uninteresting character. Let Max have a space alien boyfriend/fling. There is nothing wrong with her playing the field and/or being Promiscuous either. Let this arc be where she realizes it might be best not to get attach to someone.
Agree to disagree. I find Rowwn far more interesting than this dude. In fact, lots of people care. Definitely not everyone, but definitely not no one.
Even if Rowan was not important, this would be something to talk about beforehand, not afterwards.
The critical part being how it undoes Max’s previously established moral boundaries into becoming the kind of person who will cheat on their SO on a whim just because the opportunity is there and she feels lonely.
“Noone cares about Rowan.”
Max seems to care about him.
“Quit trying to shoehorn him into Max’s life.”
Max did the shoehorning by referring to him repeatedly as ‘her boyfriend’ and ‘her man.’
“Rowan is plain generic uninteresting character.”
Ah yes, the generic firefighter/medical student who is going to become a pediatrician. Such a common trope, amirite? :)
But seriously…
He’s not generic or uninteresting, although his sister Shiloh is far more interesting. :)
Also a lot of readers do like Rowan, since he does tie Maxima to a more ‘normal’ life and how someone like Maxima would ever be able to fit into any semblance of normalcy, given that she is not remotely normal (what with being one of the most powerful beings on Earth and possibly the greater galaxy, as well as one of the most famous as well).
Part of the whole appeal of the comic is the focus on the ‘slice of life’ portion of a superhero’s life NOT always being about world-ending fights and whatnot.
A lot of readers do not like Rowan, do their opinions not count?
Obviously not seeing how it’s only the ones who do like him and believe Maxi is cheating on him are allowed to comment
So, just so I understand your argument correctly, you are saying that if a third person observer doe not like the person, it becomes okay to betray their trust. In other words, there is person A and person B in a relationship, and person C does not like person B. So person C’s dislike of person B makes bad behavior by person A excusable, even though person A DOES like person B. The only difference is someone who neither person A nor person B knows does not like person B.
Also, even if you DONT like Rowan, it’s quite reasonable to still believe that showering naked with other men is a betrayal of Rowan.
Oh and where did I say people who believe only people who think Maxima is cheating on Rowan (or at least cheating adjacent) are the only ones allowed to comment? The whole point of a comment board is to be able to comment against other people with differing opinions. Why would you think I want a complete echo chamber?
What, because I actually argue with things with which I disagree?
Show me the bad behaviour from Maxi, the actual bad behaviour not just opinion
Again, Maxi is showering with G, not having sex with him
“I was only dry humping that stripper, there was no sex, dear!”
What I don’t like about Rowan: He is way too OP to be a “normal” man.
He has time to be both an MD and a Paramedic?! In GURPS they call that type of character “supernormal”. The other poor bastards in that bar didn’t stand a chance, they were pitching against a Bruce Wayne type of character.
Just acknowledge Rowan as a supernormal character and I have no problem with him.
I’m pretty sure he gave a pretty good explanation for it, actually.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1165/
Author comment typo: “to give it time for your new identity to time to sink in” (near the end of the first paragraph). There is an extra “to time” there.
hate to be the prude here, but in my book that is cheating on her boyfriend
I worry about the SO’s of anyone that wouldn’t consider this cheating.
I mean I would definitely talk about my partner about these boundaries before I accepted naked shower backrubs with someone trying to get into my pants.
It’s not just the act and the immediate context, but about communication. You can decide whatever boundaries you like, but even in a polyamorous relationship you should talk about them beforehand, not just act on whatever urges you have in the moment unless it’s within the agreed on boundaries. If all you know is that you’re boyfriend and girlfriend, you should probably assume a certain amount of exclusivity inherent in the terms.
One might also consider if the roles were reversed and Max’s SO was accepting naked shower backrubs from women who are explicitly trying to get into his pants, would Max be okay with it if they hadn’t talked about it first?
I don’t think so – though I could be wrong. But if she wouldn’t consider it fine and okay without talking about it first ,that does make her a serious hypocrite and not in the casual way but the kind that is deeply damaging in the long run as they try to justify it to themselves.
I wouldn’t consider this cheating. My girlfriends are free to shower naked with anyone they fancy, but usually that just happens to be each other or me.
Might I suggest that you might not be the norm. :)
Obviously, but I’m also not alone. There are a lot of people with so many different understandings of boundaries regarding dating and sex, and just assuming that Rowan has the same as you is weird.
I’m pretty sure it’s not that big a stretch that the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN RELATIONSHIPS would consider their partner showering with other people to be a betrayal of their trust. I wouldn’t take something that’s an extreme minority position and assume it’s the overwhelming majority position. So yeah, I’m going to assume that Rowan has teh same understanding of boundaries regarding dating and sex as not only me, but…. the ridiculously massive majority of people.
I mean… you say ‘I’m not alone.’ Yeah. And I’m sure that a person who likes eating peas and carrots on their pizza is not alone, but it’s still a betrayal of good taste for pizza everywhere. :)
Part of having trust in someone includes trusting them to be able to shower with someone (even someone of the opposite gender but same sexuality) without having sex with them
Maxi has repeatedly stated she will NOT have sex with G… you saying she is lying?
Wait, there is a Pizza Council that determines what pizza should taste like?
Possibly. To herself maybe in this case. Leading to a mistake she may or may not regret. We dont know yet for sure.
But part of Trusting someone in this sort of situation is being aware of the situation (either specific or in a general sense that this could happen). If we later get context that Rowan and her made it clear that they trust each other being around this sort of thing, because they both work in high tension/close quarters with other first responders, then thats cool. But to our knowledge, Rowan doesnt even know this is a possibility. So his trust isnt a relevant factor here, because he hasnt been given the option to trust her.
I’m going to just use Tendo’s statement as what I would say as well, since I can’t put it better than Tendo put it.
As for the pizza thing, yes, there is a Pizza Council, composed of people from Brooklyn and Staten Island. Some people from Chicago tried to join but after a brief trial by combat, they were dispatched, since deep dish pizza is not pizza – see Jon Stewart’s rant on this for confirmation.
No?
Literally this comment secrion alone proves empirically you are incorrect?
I’m not aware that 3 people empirically constitutes a ‘majority of people.’
Yes, showering with another person without any sort of open relationship in place that the boyfriend or girlfriend has already agreed to is going to be considered a betrayal of the trust of that boyfriend or girlfriend.
Perhaps you can give a better argument than ‘No?’
Tbh this kinda feels like character assassination…
Yeah. Even if Maxima is going through some feelings that she doesn’t normally let to the surface.
Gellen’s being skeevy as fuck despite his apparent empathy on other matters, and has kept pushing after several clear no’s. He frankly seems worse than Deus, here.
The way I read the conversation is that Max is using the boyfriend excuse, regrets that she is not honest with the boyfriend) even tho is seems that, according to the timeline, maybe 3 or 4 dates over quite a bit of time. To me, that does not equate to the permanence that a lot of comments are saying. It also seems that close contact has been a choice not to have it because of how she is, and that causes lots of regret. The yearning for touch is a powerful thing. In the future, she will have a conversation with Rowan. But looking back in the timeline, remember in the bar, some guys looking through the beer glass? They may have already keyed in on him and who she is.https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1168/
Yes, that’s definitely a little bit cheaty, especially knowing exactly what this dude’s intentions are. My usually unwavering high opinion of Maxima just went down a bit. She should know better.
I can not find that guy attractive with that horrible hair style.
What the hael is wrong with his hair style?
He has one of those ‘yaoi’ hair styles, which don’t really appeal to everyone I guess.
Hope I spelled yaoi correctly.
Sexuality has definable hairstyles?
Wait, is it the hairstyle that defines the sexuality? Or the sexuality that defines the hairstyle?
Was simply wondering what about his hair style alone that made G unattractive
At least it wasn’t his nose or ears
To be fair they both have pointy ears.
But the nose shape does have a lot of ‘yaoi’ overtones to it as well from what I’ve seen of the genre.