Grrl Power #465 – Perejoika
I implore you to read Sydney’s last bubble in the most Smirnoffy accent you can. I won’t say this joke was a prime motivation for the entire Sigil story arc… but it was definitely one of the first gags I wrote down when I started putting ideas for it together… and this was like, well before page 200.
It played out slightly differently in my head. Ingsol’s speech about the horrors of Vampire starvation was longer and more harrowing to give it more gravitas, and I really wanted a pause panel of Sydney glancing around while Ingsol continued to pose dramatically, like she’s thinking “Should I say it? What a set up! How can I not say it?” And the final panel, Sydney’s expression was supposed to be a little goofier, like maybe a bit wall-eyed, like she’s, well, really leaning into the impression. Alas, I drew her eyes like 5 times and never really got them quite right. Still I think it came out pretty good.
Panel 2 also suffered from a lack of space on the page. I wanted it to be a lot more chaotic in the background, like a nurse with with an armful of those blood packets running away from another vampire and a couple more drinking from a “keg” of blood or something equally ridiculous. (Suzie isn’t injured in that picture, she was just caught in the Vampire equivalent of someone popping the cork on the champagne.) There’s only so much space on one page.
#MakeComics: More from the eat my cake and have it too files:
Stuff I cut:
Ingsol prefacing his speech in panel 2 with more vamp history. I pulled it for space but also it was a little redundant with him telling Sydney of prior purges of creatures that couldn’t keep their bloodthirst under control: “Some strains of wampirism produce wiolent and feral sirelings. These have been largely culled, but an individual’s reaction upon embracing the night is alvays a vild card.”
Sydney still hoping for a workaround – cut for space and being entirely tangential to the page: “So no uh, Synthaglobin in the real world yet?”
Ingsol: “Vat?”
Sydney: “You know, synthetic… Oh I’ll just say it. TruBlood.”
Ingsol: “No, however we can survive on any mammalian blood quite easily.”
Sydney: “I bet Human bloods tastes best though, right?”
Ingsol: “Indeed. Also there is a certain… sensual component to feeding, so feeding on animals is qvite stigmatized.”
Sydney: “So it’s fair to say you guys have a real food fetish, huh?”
Ingsol: (giving her ‘the stare’) “…”
Double res version will be posted over at Patreon. (As soon as I get up. $1 and up, but feel free to contribute as much as you like :)
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I’m guessing this will be the last time Sydney is invited to a Supernatural Council meeting. She doesn’t seem to be making any friends there.
they already established that due to the global fame of Arc-swat, they are to “uninvite” themselves to the meeting and instead send Arc-light members.
Still that doesn’t mean she can’t make friends.
Fairly sure she has made friends with Sir Fluffikins, and probably Azi (that, was most probably an unwanted accident)
About the only one she is not making friends with, is Inggie and his ‘daughters’, but that’s because he has a stake up his butt about which country he is from :P
I think she has been getting on very well with him. He is just not used to being teased. Judging by how quickly he got passed his last outburst, at her, I do not think she has irreparably harmed their relationship.
Plus she might be making some friends amongst the gallery, if they enjoy seeing Ingsol being poked successfully like that. Although it could easily be alienating others, so she would be wise to cut it out.
But that would not be so funny. :-D
Agree with you
beef or lamb?
Rimu
Ooh, ooh, is that what Hobbiton is built with?
Manuka (great for smoking and making honey, both things Hobbits love to do)
Actually, I’d think the Council *needs* someone like Sydney…she sees past the history and glamour and hype. Cuts right through the `No one can ever understand the darkness of our existence!’ emo-fuel to the basic common denominator…which is essentially, for humans: “Can I hit the snooze alarm or do I really need to pee?” question every human asks upon waking. She’s a good gauge for EveryPerson; if the Council listens to what she’s saying and why, they can spin their eventual reveal to lessen the fear of difference.
However, if the Council chooses…as Ingsol appears to be doing…to be offended and butt-hurt, then they’re going to lose. Regardless of what the media tells you, most people don’t care as long as it doesn’t affect them. Racism, sexism, any negative -ism isn’t really a factor to most people. Where it’s a problem is in the institutionalization…bureaucracies don’t change or adapt well and are in the business of preserving the bureaucracy itself.
Seriously, would the Council (as represented by Ingsol) be better served by Sydney making a joke, or Sydney, as one of the most powerful (if untrained) supers in the world, taking them seriously and saying, “Hm. So by your own admission, vampires can easily become violent and murderous. Sorry, but much like a rabid dog who has a disease that can be spread and is quite dangerous, I’m going to have to put you, and all like you, down. Doesn’t matter if he’s attacked anyone or infected anyone, that dog *can* bite and *can* spread his disease, so pre-emptive protection of the population is in order. Now, lets see if my Light Orb can mimic sunlight…”
Honestly, vampires and therianthropes? In the words of Karen to Deacon Frost, “You’re a sexually transmitted disease!” They aren’t a separate race, they’re infected humans…who can be dangerous to others. That gets into some pretty murky moral areas…do you quarantine them to keep the population safe from infection? Do you put the burden of protection on the individual humans at risk of being hunted?
I’m glad Dave has to write those answers, not me…
The analogizing of vampirism (or any therianthropes) to disease has oft been explored. The opposite is far less explored and is, unfortunately, often subject to negative portrayal and decried (“playing god”, “mad science”, etc), probably because humans are innately fearful, or at least wary, of the novel and unknown, at least initially. This is vividly elucidated in many a sci-fi story.
Which is too bad, because it seems to me that a scientific study and comprehensive understanding of the mechanisms underlying therianthropes formation would be enlightening.
Indeed, if true, the superhuman attributes of therianthropes (eg super strength, enhanced regeneration, functional immortality, etc) could pave the way for more rapid advancement of medical knowledge and open new opportunities for researching cures as never before. For example, cancer are essentially dysregulated immortal cell lines… which makes me wonder: are therianthropes more prone to cancer? If not, why? How is their biology different as to avoid such a fate?
Furthermore, a better understanding of mechanisms may point to a possibility to cure or potential to prevent transmission, eg with a “vaccine”.
As for the feral reactions to being turned… why? Could we reliably predict or mitigate such effects that transformation can be effectively used as a cure to stop people from dying?
And from a purely economic standpoint: would it be less resource-intensive to breed herds of cattle for their blood (more renwable resource) to sustain an equal number of therianthrope population as opposed to having to butcher them for meat?
Too bad research tends to be boring to most people, lol.
+1
Humans don’t need the blood and most don’t want it (sorry all you blood sausage lovers) in the cattle they are killing now so there might not really be a need to have a whole separate herd just for “milking”.
Sounds like they only feed in person on living prey though so that might complicate the slaughtering process if they really need to do that.
And then there’s the whole “bestiality” thing… (where Ingsol basically admits that they feel like they are having something along the lines of sex with their food [like a warm apple pie])
J.K. Rowling has explicitly stated that lycanthropy is code for HIV in the Harry Potter universe – including the recent scientific advances turning it from dangerous into a relatively harmless but chronic medical condition.
Just as well this is not the Rottenverse, then is it not?
So, that means that Cyrus Black (or whatever the bloody hell his name was) had AIDs? o_O
And then there is the worrying subtext of Harry Potter being chased by a werewolf. If it was an intentional analogy, what was that meant to signify?
A simulated AIDS scare? Followed by Remus having to resign when parents found out about their kids being “exposed” to the disease?
He’d been taking a potion to keep some of the symptoms of his condition at bay but he had forgotten to take it that night. If that helps.
A fair analogy, barring the fact that the werewolf was attempting penetration.
Using a new thing to inspire the way you write an old one may be a great way to find interesting twists to old things but at some point you’ve gone as far as you can go without alienating the audience and the werewolf’s gotta act like a werewolf? (I mean I think they had to go with the somewhat out of control type of werewolf or it would be more of a quirky condition than a disease right?)
True. I think the best AIDs analogy I saw, along these lines* was a sci-fi film, cleverly set in a post-zombie apocalypse setting. But after the cure had been found. So all the zombies were in remission, but only as long as they kept taking their drugs. If they skipped any, then they could revert and get all “AAARRRG!”
The latter clearly representing the fear of contagion that others have, irrational though it is, in anything other than very specific circumstances. The rest of it though serving as a very close analogy, such as how people fear working alongside one of the ‘cured’.
Along with a bunch of other plays on situations that AIDs sufferers might find themselves in. Such as being suspected, or outed, whilst attempting to retain their anonymity. Along with the hostility that can result.
* Bearing in mind that I had never picked up on the Harry Potter one, so, if it was intended as one, it failed miserably with me.
This is reminding me a lot of the way “My Life as a White Trash Zombie” went though that one was in a normal modern setting with the zombies hiding cause they looked normal as long as they got enough brains to eat (and if they got more than a little then they became super powered!) but if they couldn’t find a way to get access to enough brains of funeral homes or whatever then their bodies started to “rot” a little and they became single minded/HUNGRY.
I wonder if that was an analogy for a disease of some kind or just for straight up drug abuse? (or some combination)
Anyway great book. Lots of fun. (love the cover art too)
No Sirius Black was transforming himself into a canine with magic on purpose. He wasn’t afflicted like his friend Remus. He, and Remus’s other friends, did it to support his friend at first. I don’t really know what the would signify with the AIDs thing? Maybe it would be the AID’s equivalent of when the friends of cancer patients shave their heads to be bald like their friend is after chemo? *shrugs*
Or, it’s simply a case of Rowling being nuttier than a Twilight Bar on a Full Moon Night
Council Members Bar or sparkly? :)
Sparkly (couldn’t remember her name :()
Yes, but it’s a deeply flawed analogy. Yes, a werewolf might bite their child and give him or her lycanthropy, but the real problem for any sensible parent would be that *werewolves kill people*. Last time I looked, people with HIV or AIDS were not morphing into 6 foot tall homicidal fanged killing machines 10% of every month.
Having a werewolf on staff at a school would be the equivalent of knowingly hiring Jack the Ripper to be janitor at an all girls’ school.
Even that is a highly flawed analogy, as the werewolf citizen is a useful, safe member of the public most of the time. Their risk periods are well known and precautions can be taken, to ensure that there is either little or (with very good protocols) no risk. Plus, importantly, the honest werewolf will always cooperate with these safety measures, not wishing to cause any harm themselves.
Whereas a psychopathic serial killer would always be a risk, as they want to continue killing, and may choose to do so at any time, and will work to overcome anything which impedes them.
Unfortunately, Bob, for `most’ people, the least resource-intensive response would be, “Kill all the monsters and let the God of their choice sort them out!” Maybe keep a few for study…read as: strapped to a table and experimented on…but generally, the response would be, “Destroy all monsters!”
Honestly, I consider myself a tolerant guy, but that guy over there with fangs and a nibbly expression looks in my direction, my tolerance is at an end…in fact, I’d say my tolerance ends where my safety begins. I mean, I understand research into WMDs…chemical and biological weapons; if `we’ don’t study them and find ways to counteract them, that leaves `us’ vulnerable to those less squeamish. However, I don’t want that research done in a house down the street. Nope, lock that stuff up behind mega-redundant failsafes far far away from the population.
And creatures that actively hunt and feed on humans? Yea, sign me up for Team Blade rather than Team Edward.
Fair points.
One thing to consider though is that the Veil is there as much for humanity’s protection as any of the supernatural races. Because if a Blade style pogrom is started, then the supernatural will fight back. And they have a collective organisation, with mutual defence policies and a mandate to use extreme force where necessary. Plus I bet multiple interstellar races have more firepower than all of the combined human armies on Earth.
I vote for the ‘non-extinction of humanity’ camp. Being its best friend.
Yorp, I always like reading your replies, but…seriously? `For humanity’s protection’? That’s what you get from the Veil? Humans are kept ignorant and unaware that they are being HUNTED FOR FOOD! If you manage to survive an attack, you have a far better chance of convincing Tommy Lee Jones to not pursue you because you didn’t kill your wife and a one-armed man actually did it.
Seriously, it’s akin to saying “Buck’s a good, God-fearing man. Only beats his wife with a rod no thicker than his thumb, and only does it on Saturday nights. Never leaves bruises where the neighbors can see; he’s considerate of his wife’s vanity that way.”
And as we’ve been told…so far…the Veil is there to protect the *supernatural* races, because there’s so many of us and our responses to attacks are…energetic. Yeah, Buck only punches his wife in the face when she’s sleeping and can’t reliably defend herself.
I’m pretty sure the interstellar parties would back off…most people aren’t going to stop off in the middle of a gang war for a beer at the New Cool Club, because that’s where Beeblebrox got his second mandibular thorax ventilated, even if Beeblebrox is your brother.
Pretty sure if the Veil drops…for whatever reason…those extranaturals capable of leaving, *will*, until they see how things shake out.
Sure, most vampires may not kill people, they take what they need to live…or exist. “Yer Honor and members of the jury…huh-huh `members’…I did *not* rape Buck’s wife! I only stuck my finger up her butt for a bit! You know I gots me a…condition…”
Fingers up the butt are only okay if it’s consensual, my friend. The Veil negates that possibility.
So…may wanna rethink the title of “Man’s Best Friend”. I do not think it means what you think it means. Anyone okay with wives or girlfriends getting butt-fingered without express permission and willing participation is not what most men would consider a friend.
Seriously. But I did not say that was its primary purpose. I said it was ‘as much for humanity’s protection as any of the supernatural races.’ Humanity is getting a benefit from it, even though it is at a cost.
Do note that you are making a mistake though. Or overstating your case. Vampires, werewolves and their ilk are not hunting humanity en masse. Only criminals, within their ranks, are. Who are hunted down by the Council and/or Archon (although we have yet to learn the details of whether this is transitioning from the former to the latter or being shared).
Not knowing that this is happening is intrinsically unfair. And I am not arguing otherwise. What I do though is look at the reasons and the alternatives. Your analogy is very poor, as it assumes a relationship of equals. A husband and wife.
Whereas it would be better to think of the Earth as being an anthill in the middle of a kid’s playground (both, not just the anthill). The anthill though has a fence around it. Big enough and slippery enough that the ants cannot see above it or climb over it. Although the children can lean over and watch the ants. Which is why the teachers left it there. For the odd lesson on insects. Plus to let the children to have fun watching it or use puppet-on-a-string-ants to play with the ants.
Sometimes however, a naughty schoolboy will get a magnifying glass and fry a few ants. Horrible for them, yes, but the ant colony is big and their society has many more deaths, from other causes, so it does not cause general alarm. And, of course, prefects, and a new breed of super soldier ants, can spot this happening and punish the offenders, before they do too much harm.
Now what happens if we take away the fence? Well ants being ants, they will explore the areas previously inaccessible to them. And find that their explorers get trodden on, fairly often. Not maliciously, but because this is a playground, and kids are running around playing, or going to class. They would not even notice the ants underfoot.*
Naturally enough the ants will retaliate, and bite (or use nasty chemical weapons). And the children, well this gives the naughty ones all the excuse they need to stomp on ants, or even the anthill! Plus any good kids, who get bitten, (or see friends being hurt) might join in.** Of course the ants will fight back, using their superior numbers. And, being particularly good soldier ants, they may even kill some kids!
Now lets see if it would go the way you were thinking with your analogy?
I rather think not. Individual kids will cry and run away, of course. However, if the ants are being a nuisance, like this, the janitor will come and sprinkle insecticide, around the anthill, to stop them from going into the areas where children are playing. If a single kid dies though, the headmaster will be calling professional exterminators!
I do not think killing the ants, with a magnifying lens, is nice. But it beats the alternative.
Of course there is a third option. Teach the kids, and the ants, how to get along with each other. But you need to do that before the fence is removed, not after.
* Going into faerie rings can be… most unfortunate. The Veil stops humans from being able to do this. Likewise stopping them from finding other equally unsafe places or beings.
** Think of each kid as being a faction, or key members of one. The Council would probably would not be too bothered by individual deaths. Crimes happen. These would just be stings. But cause significant harm to a faction and it is like killing a child of the galactic community.
See, Yorp, your basic premise is that the supernaturals are somehow *superior* to mere humans. Instead of your ant analogy, I would use, say, a pack of wolves or dogs. One on one, the supernatural could easily triumph (or not so easily…but in general, in man vs dog, the man wins…in this case, vampire vs human, the vampire wins). However, when you have that person against the *pack*…the fence is not so much to protect the pack as it is to protect *you*.
And you miss the point that however cool and sparkly modern thought paints the supernaturals, they PREY ON HUMANS. They INFECT humans. They use and abuse humans, and the humans are kept ignorant and clueless. Your sister or mother has to walk blindfolded down a dark alley, wherein any number of butt-fingerers can choose to assault her and get away with it! And you say that blindfold is for *her* protection?
Sorry, supernaturals, your rights end where my safety begins. No one has the `right’ to assault me, you, your sister, or the homeless guy down the street. The Veil does not protect humans, it was enacted to protect the supernaturals who *prey* on humans…as Ingsol admitted, if they *don’t* feed regularly, vampires can be extremely dangerous and go mad with hunger…which I read as indiscriminate in their violence against their food source.
Which, to belabor a point, is HUMANS. Now, you *can* draw a parallel between humans and cows, say, “Hey, Grim, give up processed food, you want beef, go kill a cow with your own hands.” And that would be fine, I can get behind that…knowing that if I *can* kill a cow with my bare hands (I’d give me 30/70 odds; higher if I’m allowed to use `human’ gifts such as the ability to use tools), and the herd finds out and gets pissed off…I may very well be screwed, which sorta proves my point.
People tend to get energetic in their defense when necessary. We’re herd animals, too, and we’ll stampede the *hell* out of any wolf-pack we find out is thinking we’re the Flavor of the Month.
As for aliens…sorry, I believe differently. We’re primarily, according to what we’ve seen, a tourist planet. When Bad Things/civil unrest/revolutions/whatever happen in a tourist destination, the Powers That Be don’t automatically swoop in to conquer the cabanas. They put out tourist warnings, tour groups stop going there until it cools down, and so on. Of course, that’s giving the alien races a `human’ outlook, which I feel is reasonable with the information we’ve been given thus far.
Your stance appears to be it’s better to be butt-fingered than violently raped, which is, to a certain extent, irrefutable. *My* stance is your body should be safe from anything you don’t freely and knowingly consent to. I don’t care how big and scary and hungry the attacker is, I believe *you* have the right to your personal safety. If you *can’t* agree to it, if you’re prevented from even knowing the danger exists…
Here’s a blindfold for your sister. The butt-fingerer is big and strong and has a medical condition, so we can’t have her going to the cops with an ID or anything…
Firstly I must praise you on making a highly coherent response. You make a lot of good points, some of which I agree with. Others of which are good, on their own, but I disagree with the priority you give them. Obviously I will still offer the counter-arguments in support of my own case, but I thought I would initially explain why.
I know DaveB to be a highly moral person. So I do not find it credible that he would choose to have the heroes act in support of something which was immoral. Further he carefully works out his settings, and the balances of power, in advance, plus properly incorporates individual motivations into the whole.
As such it leaves me confident that in situations where first impressions would indicate that it is immoral, there are valid mitigators and reasons behind the scenes. And it is not hard to find them if you discount the implausible (super heroes acting immorally) and anything which leads to that conclusion. Because then you can spot the reasons why they might be acting in the way that they are.
So you are working on the basis of ‘the Veil is immoral’ and constructing a scenario which will support your presumption. Whereas I am acting on the basis that ‘the Veil is immoral, but there is a good reason why it is necessary’, then seeking to identify what they are.
For example depriving somebody of their freedom is immoral. But if they are a murderer it is justified. Therefore making imprisoning them moral, as the alternatives (such as executing them or letting them go free) are worse.
The difference between our two approaches is that I am more likely to be proven right, in the long run, because I am looking for the circumstances where the heroines’ actions remain consistent with being paragons of virtue. But even they have to sometimes accept the lesser of two evils.
As such, because you covered a wide spectrum of good points, well deserving of an in-depth response, I will respond on all of them, in due course. Initially I shall only concentrate on the most important one though. Namely the risk of extinction.
OK no need to go further. You are making one of the worst decisions in history! You have put yourself into the shoes of somebody who is deciding whether humanity lives or goes extinct. Yet, having done so, you dismiss the extinction possibility, with zero consideration.
Get it wrong and there will be no further decisions made by any humans, ever. No more babies being born, kids going to school, couples getting married or humans having a good time.
Other decisions we can handle differently. Make a non-fatal mistake and you learn from your error. The next time you are in a similar situation you will make a better call. Alternatively make a fatal mistake, and the coroner can pass on the lessons of your error to the rest of the public. Allowing us to learn from that and society becomes a safer place.
Get this decision wrong and there is no learning. Just ashes and the ruins of what was once human civilisation.
Having failed to make any risk assessment at all, despite being offered a credible reason to do so, you render the rest of your argument obsolete. If no one is left alive to enjoy the fruits of life, there is no reason to worry about rapes or murders.
Avoiding going extinct must be given priority above all other concerns.
Only once you have eliminated that risk, beyond the shadow of a doubt, should you move on to other issues. It is your duty, as the guardian of humanity, to ensure that any risk is either eliminated or reduced to the lowest degree possible.
Are the member races of the Twilight Council superior to humans?
• They can travel from other stars
• They have the resources of dozens or maybe hundreds of races to draw upon.
• They can control magic comprehensively enough to affect the entire world
• They are part of a galactic community and act collectively
• They have learnt everything humanity ever has. Including things it has forgotten. • And they have innumerable powers, techniques and capabilities which humanity has no idea about.
Yes. They are most definitely superior, at this moment in time. Which is when the extinction risk is relevant.
Allow me to point out one example, from the above list. If they can affect every human, on Earth, with an illusion, they can repurpose that to do something else. Perhaps using death magic to kill all humans. Or, with even less effort, use the Veil itself to conceal not just the supernatural but anything which poses a threat. Such as moving traffic.
However I can also offer you an academic study. Where epidemiology students were tasked with assessing the task of assessing the impact of a zombie apocalypse and figuring out if it was survivable. It was concluded that the slow moving zombies, of older movies, could be survived, if you counter-attacked early and aggressively, in force.
The fast moving zombies of modern movies though, would not be survivable. It would be an extinction event. This was a serious study, despite the comical nature, as epidemiologists need to be able to assess a new disease, if it emerges, rather than rely on past experience alone.
Zombies are undead. In D&D terms they are one of the weakest undead. Being far less powerful than vampires. Yet science has shown they could, on their own, make humanity extinct. And that is just one of the undead races. Plus there are many more species and organisations represented here, all with their own array of powers.
You have made the wrong judgement call in dismissing the extinction risk. It is overwhelmingly high, as opposed to so negligible that it can be waved away, without thought.
Grimjac, you’re assuming that humans are superior to ants. On a 1 to 1 level that may be true… but compare the numbers. By a headcount, ants win. If we judged which species was the dominant one on the planet based solely upon population comparison, humanity would not come out ahead of the insects. Yorp’s analogy emphasizes that by pointing out that the colony relying on swarm tactics could be a credible threat to their tormentors. If one extends the ‘humans’ in the analogy to include not just the Twilight Council, but also the aliens that diplomatically engage with it, you’re looking at a whole galaxy on hand in the analogy. Essentially, the Twilight Council represents at most a small clique of kids… and the prospect of alien races deciding humanity is too hostile to diverse life and must be eliminated before they get out into space is a genuine concern, which is a distinct possibility if the Veil drops, and all of a sudden some group of alien vacationers finds themselves burned at the stake because the mechanism designed to prevent that information from propagating and forming a mob mentality to eliminate the strange and unknown wasn’t there to interrupt the process.
This is a valid point. However here you are using the crimes of a few to accuse the rest. Is the pixie eating and infecting people? There are a lot of supernaturals who will be hunted, raped, tortured and burned by humans, if the veil went down. And you know it.
The vast majority of the factions we have seen do not do the things you are collectively accusing them of. Nor do the majority of the vampires and werewolves. Yet you are promoting an action which will likely result in the extermination of whole species. In your own words:
Any time people use phrases such as “black people are rapists and murderers and we should put them all in prison”, just replace the racist bit with “humans”. The same can be done with your comments.
Therefore, using your own line of logic, humans should be exterminated, within the month! Not fair? Well if you are not willing to apply the same criteria to you and your family, then do not try to use it on others.
Criminals prey on people. Criminals infect people. Criminals use and abuse people. Criminals need to be punished. Not the innocent.” the humans are kept ignorant and clueless.”Again a fair comment. However it is wrong. It is only the general public who are unaware, but it is not their job to police these matters. It is Archons. Who are human. So humans are aware.
This is not an ideal solution, as we live in a society which is improved by the light of publicity being shone on crimes, so that action can be taken if it is lacking. However if proper judicial and political oversight is maintained,* on how effective Archon and the Vi’s are being at policing the criminals, then a balance can be found between protecting both the supernatural and humans.
You are right. It may go that way. However you will not find me clapping as the last pixie’s wings are cut off and put in a lepidopterists collection! Humans are causing massive extinctions amongst the animal kingdom in our generation. Humans are also raping and killing other humans on a massive scale all the time. Unless our heroes find out that the abuses are widespread, then isolated incidents of vampires going rogue do not justify exterminating whole species.
And if humans start to do that, without such a valid justification, I doubt that the scenario will go down the tourist solution you propose. Remember that many of the factions are native to Earth. This is their home too. Some may flee. Others will fight back. Plus there would be a fair chance that at least one galactic race will not be the spineless wimps you think they are. For what happens with either of the latter, see my ‘human extinction’ post above.
* I would suggest, to DaveB, that their partnership would be better served if the journalistic role were to be kept in the loop though.
Suzie News and a veteran newspaper reporter, for example, could be brought behind the Veil, under a confidentiality agreement. Tasked with conducting investigative journalism, but having her transmissions restricted to those in the loop (such as Archon, the White House, the Twilight Council, the supernatural races) and scheduled for broadcast to the human population at whatever point, in the future, that the Veil is officially lowered.
@Grimjac Pretty sure what you just advocated was the most resource-intensive response, lol. Instead of leveraging an asset, you’re going to try to dispose of it as a liability… and most importantly, probably start a war doing so. And well. War is never cheap. Not even when it’s just fly-by bombings.
Not at all, Bob…I’d give vampires and weres a month, tops. That’s *with* our current level of technology. Infrared sweeps combined with ground-penetrating radar and other toys, find a vampire (using the traditional tropes which may not be applicable in the Grrl-verse, but gives an idea) because they run cooler than human norm. Light them up with a variable-spectrunm light generator until we know what it is about sunlight turns them crispy, and we’re good to go. Trick out a few satellites appropriately, the vampire and were scourge is done. That’s with current technology, not even counting the toys Arc has available, or Dabbler…very little resource intensity until *after*, when the bureaucracy starts trying to justify pumping more money into something that’s no longer needed.
And Bob…you *do* realize Soylent Green is people, right? That’s the sort of asset-leverage you’re talking about. Trading X number of humans so Y number can have a *possible* benefit. And making sure Y never realizes it.
Bonus points if you know the origin of Soylent Green.
Soylent Green is from the 1973 film of the same name.
*rolls around in a swimming pool, full of points*
You have failed to take into account even basic facts, in your overly-optimistic assessment. First off humans cannot see vampires or werewolves, unless the Council choose to lower the Veil. Your infrared, ground penetrating radar, and other toys would show nothing.
What makes you think Dabbler would cooperate in a war of extermination, against races which include her own?
You are failing to consider that for any weakness that you try to exploit (such as vampires being vulnerable to sunlight) the council have a dozen other races, magics, star ships, death rays and other things to counter it with. Faeries could invisibly steal key parts of your ‘variable-spectrunm light generator’, werewolves could smash it, with brute force, and any member race could use a firearm or raygun to kill the soldiers (who cannot see what to shoot back at).
You have just started a war of extinction. For humanity. I give them less than a month. Unless the vampires intervene, and plead for you to be spared. So that they can have tastier snax. Kept in safe prison-factory controlled conditions, so they never pose a threat to the Council again.
Let us also not forget that any manner of ‘variable spectrum light generator’ based upon science, no matter how well it might replicate the qualities of sunlight, isn’t the same on a spiritual/magical level as the sun. It does not make sunlight, it make sunlike light. There’s a good chance that instead of a weapon against vampires, it ultimately may amount to nothing more than a vampiric tanning solution.
*So* close, Yorp…you get half a point. The original was Harry Harrison’s “Make Room, Make Room”, which was adapted for the screen as Soylent Green.
I come away from your posts with half-understanding, half-incredulity. I have to say I also respect DaveB’s plotting and planning (for the most part…his handling of Maxima in favor of Sydney during the big superbattle being one where I *personally* feel he dropped the ball, but that’s another discussion entirely); however, he has also been very good with handling opposing viewpoints and acknowledging *his* view is not the Universal Answer kind of thing. His story, his view…I’m cool with that, and think it’s very cool he acknowledges others may not `agree’ and have valid reasons.
So, that said…I am, of course, human-centric in my views, especially when humans have been the victims (albeit unwitting, for the most part) of the supernaturals. As far as we know, there is ONE guy that can replace his blood. Where, do you think, do the other vampires get their meals? From what we know of the Veil, I think it highly unlikely it’s from willing donors…at the very least, Red Cross-donated blood is being mis-directed toward a use the donors were not aware of.
So…vampires are, at best, thieves. At worst, violent predators. Do they have a right to exist? Sure…but their rights end where my safety begins.
I look at the Veil as similar to child/sexual predator laws…from opposite ends of the spectrum. Do child/sexual predators have a right to exist? Of course…but does their neighborhood have the right to know they live there, so reasonable precautions can be taken? I believe so. The Veil prevents that. Your sister’s next door neighbor is a convicted butt-fingerer…does she have a right to know about it? I believe so…but your opinion, I think, differs from mine.
Do bad things occasionally happen to convicted butt-fingerers? Yes. Do butt-fingerers lapse in their `recovery’ or break their parole or whatever term you use, and go on to finger more butts? Also definitely yes.
So the question, Yorp, becomes then: which is more moral? Hiding a person’s crimes and his predilection for said crimes, at the risk of the allowing more crimes to be committed and go unnoticed and unpunished? Or allow a neighborhood/society to be aware of the possibility and take steps to protect their selves?
The Veil prevents humans from *defending* themselves. Yes, it also prevents geno/xenocide…but I am a *firm* believer in the inalienable right to defend myself and my family. I’m not Rambo or Chuck Norris, and it may be likely I’d fail against a vampire…but I’d go down *swinging*. I don’t think fair or moral that you…or the vampires or the Council or Whatever-Powers-That-Be…expect me to go gentle and clueless into that good night and claim it’s `for my own good’.
And my timeline of a month was predicated on the Veil not being there…to refute your earlier statement that the Veil was for humanity’s protection. Without the Veil keeping humanity ignorant and unaware, the human herds would make assorted smears of any supernatural factions; I believe, as I said…and am amenable to agreeing to disagree on the point…those cultures with the means to flee would do so until such time as the situation stabilizes. Similar, again, to tourist destinations in our world that undergo revolution, heighten terror threats, and so on…tourists stop going there until it calms down.
And CaffeineDelusions, DaveB is responsible for deciding/describing what is *is* about sunlight that’s anathema to vampires. Really, if you think about it, why isn’t *moon*light frying vampires? All moonlight is, is sunlight reflecting off the moon. So, until DaveB tells us why sunlight affects vampires in his universe, I’m going under the working assumption it can be duplicated by variable spectrum light generators.
Oh, and Yorp…as we’ve been told, the Council isn’t all that cohesive. They have to have stiff penalties in place during the *meetings* to prevent bloodshed among member factions. So expecting every member race of the Council to jump in to save the vampires/werewolves/whatever is…well, probably similar to expecting the United Nations to act in concert on any particular topic. Humanity is as likely to get *help* from those factions as we are to face their ray guns. Again…see the track record of our own United Nations. Or the political party of your choice.
I hate to put it in such terms, but Yorp…and those defending the Veil…you are actually advocating slavery. What else do you call enforcing your will on another entire race for your benefit? Those ignorant humans just can’t handle their emotions, this is for their own good, really…
All in all, an interesting discussion. Is it any wonder I like reading the comments almost as much as I do the comic itself?
Somehow missed this one.
No. At the very least they use animal blood. Which, ooh, look is covered in Dave’s blog.
Plus check out the mini-comic. They are not even allowed to have pictures, on the internet, which might incite human feeding!
No, our best indication is that they farm pigs, cows and other mammals. Plus make use of pools of volunteers.
Which, unless we get any indication that vampires as a whole are feeding on humans, makes the rest of your post irrelevant.
So your right to be macho, gives you the right to risk the extinction of the human race? This status quo has existed for 3,000 years. And there are 7 billion people on the planet. Humanity is thriving despite all your dire claims to the contrary!
Yet, in order for you to be able to conduct vigilante attacks, rather than allowing the police to do their jobs, to deal with isolated incidents, you would purposely exterminate whole species. Your response is disproportionate to the offences. Legally and morally speaking genocide is the worst crime on the books! And you are advocating it.
My route has a 3,000 year track record of humanity thriving. Your route requires opposing many species who could individually exterminate humanity (vampire apocalypse, zombie apocalypse, alien apocalypse (several of these), demon apocalypse (ditto), angelic apocalypse, etc) and just crossing your fingers that ALL of them will chose not to do so.
Sure, happy to do that analogy. Clearly humanity is a ‘rogue state’. As supported by your advocating genocide, which is the kind of thing rogue states do. Citing whatever over-exaggerated casus belli they choose (like you). Despite having no credible evidence to back up the claims (ditto).
The track record for Iraq is that when a member state (Kuwait) was attacked (like you propose to do versus vampires and werewolves) the UN did act in concert, despite all their normal differences. Likewise when it was suspected that Iraq had WMD (which unlike Iraq, humanity at large does have).
Your risk assessment if flawed. Whereas mine has a track record of 3,000 years, of humanity thriving, to back it up.
So they are not that far off from regular humans then.
Sydney, stop taunting the nice blood-suckers.
“I’m not Russian; I’m Stalin (for time before we are publicly outed).”
Heh. I seem to recall in one of Nic Pollotta ‘s Bureau 13 books, Stalin was a vampire, or ghoul, or some such.
Been too long, though.
Cut joke worked a lot better for me than the in comic version.
So we are having stuff off the “cutting room floor” now (and I enjoy that). Wonder what’s next? Blooper outtakes?? (please please please please please )
Outtakes for the blooper reel:
That time in the crowded elevator when Sydney’s orbs kept whacking the other people in the head.
The time when Hiro tried to open the door to the meeting room, didn’t know it was locked, and the doorknob came off in her hand.
The time when the General walked into the interrogation room to check on the debriefing of a suspect to find that Dabbler had ‘debriefed’ the suspect.
The Mosque.
(Hiro…’his’)
His nob came off in his hand? Ouch!
But… you don’t eat hunger.
Unless you are like Dabbler or V who seem to eat primal urges, desires, etc…
We need more biologists in our readership. The current lot failed to draw the obvious connection between apples and Grrl Power Lycanthropes!
Apples are “extreme heterozygotes” where they inherit few of their parent’s DNA. Which is a mechanism that could explain the apparently odd inheritance patterns of lycanthropes. Except they have normal human-like inheritance 9/10ths of the time. But become extreme for the remaining 1/10th.
Apples are so extreme that in order to cultivate a specific type of apple, growers have to graft the desired type onto the roots of another apple tree! I do not think that would work so well with werewolves mind. They only have roots in their teeth.
Although werewolf tooth transplants are a possibility…
Hmm, fairly sure they have roots in their skins, at the base of their fur
Wait.. apples or therianthropes?
::tilts his head at an angle indicating extreme confusion and moves his ears quite far apart::
Apples have teeth? o_O
Yes.
That wasn’t the example was expecting
Een Russian Snow Vite story, apple bites girl!
Not entirely sure why, but Merfolk biology from One Piece popped into my head when you said that.
How the merfolk explain it (summarized):
There are mermen and fishmen. Mermen have a tail and dorsal fin that shows off whatever fish they express in their genes. Fishmen have legs and their fish traits are blended into their human shape. If an octopus fishman and marlin mermaid have kids, they could be any combination thereof- and might be unrelated. They could always be a seahorse merman or catfish fishwoman. How? Because obviously that breed was somewhere within at least one of their lineages- which is why the mer don’t understand a human’s capacity for racism.
I read just a little of your link but as far as my English can tell the phrase
“…rather than inheriting DNA from their parents to create a new apple with those characteristics, they are instead significantly different from their parents”
is wrong or at least poorly redacted and misleading (pretty common in Wikipedia).
All the ADN (or near to) apples inherit do is form their parents. Apples do can end being pretty similar to their parents. I mean, pretty much like humans.
A gene in an organism, apples and humans included, is heterozygote when there are at least two variants of it among the diverse copies of a chromosome. A human with AB blood type have an heterozygote ABOgen, one parent’s copy is of the A variant, the other is of the B variant (and they are also codominant).
The diversity among offsprings of the same parents is, in part, due to the different combination of gene variance. In humans if a gen is homozygote (no variants) in both parents there are up to one possible combinations, if the same gen is heterozygote in both parents, there are up to four possible combinations.
What happens with species that have high occurence of heterozigote genes (pretty common among plants) is that the probability of offsprings being similar to their parent, or among themselves, drops drastically. You cross the same parents, and each time the milk-shake (pun intended) ends different.
[Dominance rules are the other important player in this game but let’s keep it simple.]
Related: most apples in the market are triploid hybrids (have three sets of chromosomes), obtained by crossing a diploid (two sets, as humans) and a tetraploid (fours sets) “races”, which gives an even higher number of possible combinations.
TL;DR
To be correct (or at least clearer), the statement should be:
“…rather than inheriting the traits of their parents creating a new apple with similar characteristics, the offsprings are often significatly different from their parents”
or just: “…offsprings have a high probability of being significantly different from their parents”
Note: do not trust Wikipedia, is one of the worst minefields ever.
I did not trust Wikipedia. I just provided the link as a courtesy for anybody not familiar with the term. :-P
I paraphrased my comment from QI. Poorly, admittedly. But as the biologist readership had failed to pick up this possibility I was mainly addressing other laymen like myself, so was not too fussed.
But thanks for clarifying it. :-)
Importantly your final summary conforms to the take-home facts from QI. Which keeps my proposal viable. If I can come up with a fix to the problem you state below.
About lycanthropes I do not think that the interspecies jump is “doable” thru “heterozygotism” (is that a word?). I rather would expect lycanthropy’s genetic code to be very similar among species and also compact (maybe is just one gene!) so it could take just one base pair change to turn one into a close related other. Also they could be genes with low repair priority, so functionally more prone to mutations.
I think that for a were-lion to sire a were-gazelle, it must be more complex than you suggest. Those two forms are significantly different.
Here is my suggested alternative. The human side of the DNA* works as normal. I.e. you mostly inherit characteristics from your parents, but can also have some from your grandparents (or more rarely, further back).
The magical lycanthrope DNA though operates in parallel. Instead of storing the individuals DNA, from previous generations, it carries characteristics from an average member of a related lycanthrope species. So if bitten by a were-lion, instead of having a chance to inherit some of your “grandmother’s” DNA you could instead have were-panther DNA. Or tiger, cheetah, or Lynx for the other “grandparents'”. Or more distant species, such as the gazelle, for earlier generations.
For simplicity sake I described that in the familiar human terms. Obviously you get a lot more flexibility than that using apple-style rules.
Clearly though there would be a much greater need to group the DNA together, where there are characteristics common to one species, but not another. Otherwise you would end up with too many things looking like Ligers, and other hybrids, which do not match an identifiable species.
Without extra magically provided storage though, each Lycan parent will only be able to carry a limited number of ‘species packages’. But, of course, two lycans breeding together will increase the pool of ‘species packages’ available to draw from. And, if there are common ones, in their shared pool, any offspring of that type will have more genetic variety, for the otherwise grouped aspects. Assuming that they are not too similar, to start with (being a risk if you group large amounts of DNA, as I suggest above).
Which would, admittedly, run counter to the extreme variation of the apple, but only for those aspects. Where there is commonality though (across species) the extreme rules could kick in. As they could in choosing which ‘species package’ to choose. And also where both parent lycans have species which match (assuming that a given child ends up being one such) then there could be variation even within the ‘species package’.
Obviously with the ratios tweaked to conform with those stated by Dave. So the fertility magic probably has a D10 rolling at various stages.
OK I admit I did quite a lot of stretching there. But the goal is pretty far away. Please feel free to make whatever adjustments may be necessary to improve it from ‘mostly bollox’ to ‘vaguely plausible’. :-D
* I am going to carry on using sloppy layman’s terms. It is not worth making my head hurt, getting the jargon right, as I will only forget it in a few weeks.
Aha. I really should have reread your comment, prior to hitting submit. But I haz a cold, toothache and my head was hurting, even using laymen’s terms. So I rushed it. :-D
My ‘species package’ probably equates to your ‘compact/single gene’. But hopefully I carried the gist of the rest with my layman’s waffle.
Wild theory crossing mine and yours:
WARNING: all that follows is science based but is creatively combined. Do NOT use it as knowledge source
[it ended being too long for a deep grammatical check, my apologies in advance]
– Lycans have four sets of chromosomes. Two form the normal human genome. The other two form a “specie package”, call it weregenome.
– The weregenome only contains the genes necessary to express the changes during the transformation. For instance, it do not have a gene to produce insuline, that is done for the gene in the human genome. But the weregenome do have a variant of the Agouti gene to determinate the fur color pattern.
– Since up to 95% of the genome (depending on what you call a difference) is shared among mammals, the weregenome is way smaller than the human genome, say 8% of it or less, with different genes and lower number of chromosomes.
– The weregenome genes are repressed by default (same way the gene that produce insuline is repressed by default in all humans cells except pancreatic ones). When certain conditions arise they will activate and trigger the transformation (like the gene that produce lactase is repressed until unlocked by the presence of lactose (sugar in milk) ).
– Thru evolution history weregenome have had high tendency to mutual retrotranspositon and ectopic recombination, resulting in having some genes repited several tiimes and from diferent species. Due affinity the variance tends to remain close to the dominant were-specie. Ie, a werelion genome can easely have present jaguar gene variants, but more unlikely mole ones.
[Disclaimer: if not strictly technobabble I do am bending things here. More to came :) ]
– Weregenome also have a high tendency to heterozigotism, ie genes have different variants in both copies of the chromosome.
– The two above tendencies result in that the two sets that conform the weregenome have several specie versions of the same genes each, but almost never share more than one of the same specie.
– When two lycans reproduce the gene that have a copy present in both sets have stronger expression and will determinate the specie of the were.
For instance: if the parents are werelions, the father could have genes from zebra, impala, and of course lion; while the mother could have elephant, gazelle, and of course lion. The offspring will have duplicate lion genes and then became a werelion themselve.
– During reproduction random errors can happend. If the copy of one parent specie gene become damaged then the offspring will have no were-gene duplicated. In this case if there are copies of genes of close enough species they could reinforce, and one of them can take control “supported” for the other, being able to impose their shared biochemestry. This “were-takeover” offspring usually will have weaker were-characteristics than a normal were of the same specie.
In the previous example the pair gazelle-impala with the gazelle version becaming dominant, would produce a weregazelle offspring from two werelions parents.
– If a “were-takeover” reproduces, the offspring will highly depend on the other parent gene combination. They also will usually present a higher grade of specie drift than normal.
– When a lycan mate with a human, the weregenome will have not an homologous to pair with. Most times the embryo will be inviable, but sometimes it will prospere and became an hybrid with half weregenome than normal. Those hybrids are usually female, have high difficult to conceive and almost never are able to adopt the were-form.
– Another characteristic of the weregenome is a high occurrence of unreduced gametes, ie ovules or sperm that have a complete double set of chromosomes instead of half as normal.
– If a lycan mate with a human, and an unreduced gamete is involved, the offspring will be same as in lycan-lycan case, but when transformed will have a high resemblance with the were-form of the lycan parent (technically will be a were-clone).
– If two lycans mate, and an unreduced gamete is involved the embryo will be always inviable (odd number of were-chromosomes). This occurs rarely.
– If two lycans mate, and both gametes involved are unreduced (double number of weregenome), the offspring will have low chance of being viable, but if so they will became a lycan with highly enhanced were-characteristics, prone to wild behavior and with a great difficulty to adopt and keep the human form. They are born in were-form and can’t became humans from most of the childhood. This occurs very very rarely.
Being close to daybrake I will post this as it is. Hope have some coherence. Good night.
Brilliantly done. You have redeemed your branch of Science!
*presents a “get out of ‘rampaging genetically-created creature attack’ free card”*
*wags tail cheekily*
*proudly grabs card and puts it in purse along Mace*
Much appreciated, thank you. It took a while, going back and forward filling holes and sanding edges, and now that I re-read it, it’s notorious when I started to get dreamy and drifted toward fantasy more and more :)
Although we had ideas in common a good part was just “Tetrising” your concepts, so here:
*offers a genetically engineered leather mantle that scratch backs*
*contentedly puffs a chocolate pipe*
Whee!
*arches back to get the most out of the scratcher*
Ooh aahh oooooh! That is sooo goood!
Okay, is ‘perejoika’ a real word? Just did a google-slate and it seems to be Slovenian for ‘periodicals’
The only search for the word leads to this page
I think DaveB was just having a little fun with the real word “Perestroika.”
Was thinking that as well, but just wanted to check
Has anyone else noticed that Harem and Peggy are weirded out that HALO is making the lewd face, Maxima is getting a nosebleed, and Dabbler had NO IDEA what was going on in the top panels?
:-D
It is nice when they form a tableau. Sadly though only you can see it. You are special. It is randomly generated, from a selection of images, and each reader sees a different set. Which changes over time.
Oh thank god, for a moment there it was just way beyond wrong and I was thinking it was universal because it didn’t change on me for 3 refreshes.
Pictures from you will, withdrawal symptoms from discontinuing consumption of DHMO.
Your haiku needs more syllables.
Stopped imbibing that toxin about three decades ago
::pauses from munching on a copy of The Collected Works of Basho Matsuo::
Haiku? or DHMO?
::flickers an ear worriedly::
DHMO, but make sure you are munching on Haiku and not Haku, he will bite back
I really want Sydney to ask if Helsing or the Belmonts are real.
And in which case if so: which version(s).
Hopefully not that douche from Captain N
A pondering, about the Twilight Council and which species are on it.
Are the Eldritch (or their creations) on the council? A ways back one of the “what is in the tube” seemed to imply they may exist in this universe..or just outside it…however that works out.
Well, certainly telling that it doesn’t seem that nobody/thing in the room has had any recognitive reaction to the Orbs.
Correct. Or, at least, none have reacted to them. It may well be that they have been recognised, but that those who did so do not feel that commenting on them is wise, in front of so many witnesses. Especially given that a number of the factions are hostile to one another.
I assume you mean that an Eldritch would recognize the orbs…which were found underwater *shifty eyes* and have magical properties that defy even magical explanation in such a way that they are both there and not there displaying light that is not psychic but undetected and produce a void that is too empty.
yeah, these things have an Eldritch vibe to them, but we wander are they Eldritch tools…or Eldritch themselves *ominous music plays*. (Orbs of incandescent noise)…
That also ‘implied’ that My Mutated Miniature Horses were ‘real’: in other words, you really shouldn’t look too much into what they imagined may have been in Mr. Tubey
Of course they are real! We saw one DJing in the club.
Well who is imaging what is important in that scene too. LoL
People may kill each other, but vampires who state that lines, always forget that what people don’t do, in any serious numbers, is EAT OTHER PEOPLE :p
Nor do vampires.
There is a big difference between killing someone, and consuming them, as opposed to draining some blood. Otherwise blood donor clinics would be shut down, and the doctors and nurses imprisoned, for aiding and abetting cannibalism.*
So vampires of the type shown in Lost Boys, which do have to eat people, are a serious hazard to humanity. Whereas the ones we have seen here can survive with the cooperation of voluntary donors, such as Thomas. Morally this is no different to anybody, with a medical condition, who needs periodic blood top-ups, in order to survive. Especially if we choose a disease which is communicable.
Obviously the blood-lust madness does complicate this, and requires extra precautions, not necessarily present in the above analogy. But it does not change the basic morality involved.
* I should point out though that Jehovah’s Witnesses, and other similarly extreme faiths, are not as tolerant as the rest of society and interpret the above the other way.
No, Witnesses don’t view it as cannibalism, it’s in the scriptures somewhere about not consuming or using blood (they won’t even use “Blood ‘n’ Bone” fertiliser knowingly, but they will ask their gardener to stop if they have been using it), will have to ask mum about it
Sorry, you are correct. I was talking about their overall opinion, that it is forbidden, and therefore that they would want such practices banned. I would have clarified it at the end of my footnote, if I thought it through better.
However I imagine even if they do not literally consider it cannibalism they would view it theologically speaking (approximately) on a par, as both are banned in the Bible. Although socially speaking I am sure that they would not view a blood donor nurse as being akin to Hannibal Lecter.
Jut talked to mum, and… they view it simply as people having a choice and won’t condemn those who use (or drink) blood, well, not for that specifically
But, she did point out that there would be some Witnesses who would condemn and go on an Anti-Vamp stake-out because people are imperfect and you have extremists everywhere, forgetting that most vamps are victims as well who didn’t choose to become one
Well said. I worked with an extremist one for many years. Fortunately of a pacifist inclination rather than of a militant tendency.* So was a very nice person. But was adamant that transgressors were all going to a fiery place, in due course. Nice to know that there are more mellow ones, amongst the ranks. :-)
* Talking about attitudes towards others, and language used to and about them. As opposed to suspecting her of wanting to blow up blood donor clinics. Vampires though? She considered D&D to be sent by the Devil. So I think your mum would be right that she would sign up at the Van Helsing Institute. Violence against humans would be right out. But against demons and their ilk, I think her militant side would express itself more strongly under those circumstances.
Well, if he believed in Hell, then she can’t have been a very good Bible Student as there is no mention of ‘Hell’ in the Bible
You make it seem like the ‘militant kind’ are the norm :(
She was the only one I knew personally. So I got a lot of information from a strongly opinionated source. Which does not give me a good basis to form general impressions. Although I lived next to a Kingdom Hall for years.. Likewise there is one next door to one of the places I stay on my travels, each year. They make good neighbours.
She knew her theology inside out, unlike me. So I was just summing up her attitudes, rather than making a quote. Doubtless she said something like ‘they will be judged’ or whatever might be the appropriate phrase. I will have just filled in the rest in terms I am familiar with.
We had quite a few interesting debates over the years. I eventually managed to persuade her that role-playing games, in general, had merit. But she remained frosty on her opinion of D&D itself.
Hmm, did the wamps in Lost Boys have to eat people? Or, was it simply David and co simply enjoyed eating people? Remember, their Sire was a bit of a loon
I think it was an implicit implication in the film. There was nothing which hinted at restraint being possible. Although it is a long time since I last watched it, so am happy to be corrected. Importantly the older brother was clearly feeling overwhelming compulsions, having difficulty even temporarily resisting feeding on his brother!
A sequel writer could take it either way mentally. Indicating that the old timers just enjoyed killing (as you suggest) and that a new vampire could learn to overcome their urges. Which is done in some settings, of course.
[OK as I am writing this I am having to cope with two
piranhaspuppies nibbling on me, and walking on the keyboard. And a disgruntled Jack Russel, who may demand to come sit on my lap too. With a heavy thunderstorm to top it all off!]However the film (as I recall) had the vamps eating by taking chunks out of their victims, rather than the delicate sucking used in other depictions. Their feeding scenes were total bloodbaths. As such, urges or no urges, I don’t think they would be viable neighbours. Not unless they were both able to overcome their urges and switch to fluffy lambs.
If they do not need food so fresh that it
bleatsbleeds, then they are not vampires but ghouls, or some such.The only ones we saw them feeding on, were those Surf Skinheads, Michael may have been an example of either a feral wamp, or simply hadn’t been taught proper control (most stories tell how newly-turned wamps do have trouble controlling their blood-lust, think of it like someone coming out of a decade long fasting to discover their body now desires a certain kind of sustenance: you are going to be starving and craving a particular food-type)
Did you know there has been about two or three sequels?
No, those passed me by. Which is odd, as I go out of my way to catch any vampire films. Unless they have dire reviews.
Can’t remember if the reviews were ‘dire’, but the majority weren’t exactly ‘favourable’ either (only have “Lost Boys 2” of the sequels so far)
“The Lost Boys” Soundtrack CD was the first CD ever had (a friend bought it for me), didn’t have anything to play it on for several months though :P
I have the film on VHS. Part of a job lot I got when my local video rental store went bust. I was a good enough customer that I had a lock-in, before he started his closing down sale. Fist pick of his entire stock. Only a few of which I have bothered updating to more modern media, as the quality remains good enough for my purposes. And it is handy for times when I do not have a functional PC or laptop and want to watch a film.
Lost Boys had good enough music that a couple of the tracks ended up in one of my compilation tapes. I rarely chose more than one from any given source, so that is higher praise than it might sound.
No, they don’t literally eat people. They just drain them dry,
Unless these vampires are different than most interpretations of vampires. They, as a majority, don’t care about humans, prefer to drink from people rather than a bag or animal and drink way more than a normal person can sustain.
Ingsol: “Indeed. Also there is a certain… sensual component to feeding, so feeding on animals is qvite stigmatized.”
“I thought you said you and that horse were just friends..?”
“There’s been a development!”
So in this universe vampires have been reduced to the equivalent of mosquitoes. If they are revealed to the public, will we see the equivalent protection methods? Instead of using DEET repellent spray and burning citronella candles, will people use holy water repellent spray and burn garlic candles?
Ooh, what outlets are selling those? Umm… you know, just in case.
Try these:
https://www.luckshop.com/lourdes-water-from-france
https://www.luckshop.com/garlic-scented-candle
Prepare to drive away ALL beings if you use this one
https://www.luckshop.com/garlic-soap
(They may charge extra for delivery to Transylvania)
Heh. Cool.
I was once given holy water, from St Peter’s Basilica, when I went to the Vatican. In a two litre bottle.
For reasons.
I once made some scented candles with celery, onion, sage, and a bit of grease from a smoked turkey. I called them Cornbread Stuffing. My mother blamed them for a bit of weight gain and they were banned from the house.
Honestly, I could go for a little necking right about now…
just imagine a vampire giraffe
LOL.
very lol
A man sees a giraffe walking down the street at night wearing a short black cape around its neck and carrying a very tall bar stool in its mouth.
The man says to the giraffe, “Im curious, why do you have a stool in your mouth?’
The giraffe gently places the stool on the ground upright and says to the man, “When I go out drinking, I like to bring this stool.”
The man looks dubiously at the stool for a moment, then says, “You can’t be sitting on it, that’d be ridiculous. Unless you put your drink on the stool for easier access.”
The giraffe says, “Not exactly. Care to have a seat?”
Very clever :D
Had to read the post above to figure it out though
Yeah, it was supposed to be a reply and it wasn’t.. somehow. :D
I had to resist the urge to resort to the old shaggy-dog-story standard, “I didn’t know _____s could talk.”
It worked the better for that. Avoided telegraphing the punchline.
:-D
Where did Sydney’s nose go in panel 5?
Semi-chibification
Blood isn’t a drug it is the life for vampires. So treating it like an addiction is like doing that with humans. Just stop eating and you will be fine. Finely dead. Their physiologies have been permanently changed to an all liquid diet.
I insist we rescind her nerd license. The quote is “Een Sovjet Russia, [noun] [verb] You”
Sydney could stand to have her head torn off once in a while. Teach her about boundaries.