Grrl Power #1253 – Internship or internmentship
I do think Lapha has a valid, if entirely self-serving point about meeting strange new life and “normalizing” it, i.e., locking down any part of it that makes it threatening to humans, be they Supers or not. On the other hand… if you’re an alien who has eye lasers that can disintegrate people and leave just some dusty clothes flapping in the eddies of their atomized flesh, it’s probably not entirely unreasonable to ask you to wear ruby-quartz shades.
Maxima will absolutely pound the stuffing out of someone who attacks her or her team, but she also tries to keep an eye out for talent. She wouldn’t consider this course of action with Lapha if Dabbler hadn’t been able to lock her down, and even now it’s probably a little bit risky, but you don’t make a living at being a superhero if you’re looking for a boring and safe existence.
As far as Maxima wanting a memory copier on her team and the ethical considerations revolving around that, give her at least a page to explain. As per my usual hedge, I can only fit so much on a given page.
Oh, and if you’re unfamiliar with the quintessential “Are we the baddies” reference, please enjoy.
The new vote incentive is up!
Every so often I get the urge to try and draw Maxima all properly shiny, and this… isn’t my favorite attempt if I’m honest. I’ve been sitting on this for a little while doing little tweaks, and decided to finally publish it cause I’m already behind on these. The next one will (almost definitely) resume the trend of including a little mini comic to extend the scene a bit.
As usual, Patreon has some outfit variations as well as sans flagrante.
Double res version will be posted over at Patreon. Feel free to contribute as much as you like.
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Hee! Sydney’s really channeling Princess Amelia here. ^__^ At least she’s not fixated on villains only wearing black. XD
welcome to being the establishment syd. you are now, by etymological definition, right wing.
As a retired federal government employee I can tell you that there are far more Democrats’ than Republicans in the permanent civil service ranks. So if anything “The Establishment” in the US leans left.
That makes sense, the American right wing’s position since Reagan has been “let’s downsize the government and get rid of as much civil service as possible”, so it follows that people who actually are in civil service would tend to be not entirely comfortable with the Republican party.
If you think the Democrats are on the left then you are terminally right-wing
If you’re a “everyone who doesn’t let the president stage a coup of his own government is a left-winger” kind of right-winger? I imagine many federal employees WOULD fit that definition of “left-wing” right about now.
But it’s the other way around. Staging a revolution was the original left-wing position, at least according to the origin of the term back during the French Revolution.
No, that’s a realistic assessment when you consider the specific environment. “Left” and “Right” are intensely environment specific, ‘Global’ Standards aren’t standards, they’re IDEALS invented by IDEOLOGUES pushing a narrative. Dems are ‘right wing’ compared to European Socialists, but that’s only because the U.S. is not EUROPE.
Unless you’re going to sit there and claim that ‘Solidarity’ (a labor movement in cold-war era Poland) was ‘conservative’ for going against a Socialist establishment.
Dems are right wing compared to many UK right wingers (I include myself in that).
Left and Right is such a misleading term.
I am on the right because I believe in and desire small government but most US Democrat positions are too far to the right for me.
We are afraid of a little socialism in the UK.
As someone whole lived through the Reagan years, and has made an academic study of them & the consequences thereof, as well as being both a military veteran, and a one-time civil servant, I feel obliged to say, “This is a slight mischaracterization.”
Reagan and his cronies saw the federal government as an impediment to their plan to drag the entire country kicking & screaming back into the 1950’s. You know, before the Civil Right Movement & Women’s Liberation. When any white man could still act like an entitled prick towards anyone he could punch down on. Blacks, women, anyone who spoke Spanish as a first language, and of course, anyone poorer than himself.
Real Archie Bunker stuff!
So very true.
I was a teenager during the Reagan years, myself and I thought the man walked on water until I studied his terms in office in depth years later in college. I came to the conclusion that in office he was still very good at acting and not much else. He did a lot of things that even Nixon might have balked at. That said? He was a patriot, if a deluded one on occasion. That does not excuse much of what happened, but it can explain some of it.
And yes, those years saw almost a much of a setback to entirety of the US people as more recent years have. Funny how much history repeats, no?
From an outsider perspective (I’m from the UK specifically Welsh so we’ve got a conservative (right wing broad church (so equivalent to republican and the right wing of the democrats)) UK level government, Labour/Plaid Cymru Provincial government (think roughly equivalent to the state I think, Welsh Labour is mid left and Plaid is broad church nationalist, both are nominally socialist (democratic/reformist socialist)) with a Labour local government).
I would describe the Democrats as being sort of a centrist technocrat party really, to the left of the republicans (particularly the current type of republicans) but not really of the left (though due to how the american system is effectively a two party system it is a broad church party by definition with some members trying to pull the party leftwards).
Like the extreme left of the democrat party (Bernie Sanders for example) would be moderate labour party position (old labour), most of the democrat party (as is in government at least) would be right wing labour or even Liberal Democrat (our centrist party that talks left then acts right once elected) or the left wing of the conservatives.
Also the british perspective on Regan was that he was always a nutter and senile, if you have a look at the comic “If” then you’ll see pretty much the british perspective of him at the time!
Interesting in France our position concerning Regan is the same as brits , a senile spiritual son of Joseph McCarthy…
French politic chessboard is UK likely with more fascist flavor in our UKIP equivalent party.
Macron could be a poster boy for a typical american democrat , definitively at the economical right and liberal toward morals – for same sex mariage , abortion* free safe and legal a constitutional right –
* until the end of 14e pregnancy week…( since 2022)
” until the end of 14e pregnancy week”
Which makes it bloody hilarious when was condemning whichever state that was for the horrific 15 week ban… The usual uninformed morons like to spout off about Europe for their examples, and then, the actual European examples don’t support their position.
But yeah, the media portrayal of Reagan (both in Europe and in much of America) was that he was senile and going to get the world nuked.
Of course, then the “senile” old man brought about the end of the Cold War, and everyone talks about how great they always said he was…
My problem is with Texas … about abortion unalowed before the 6th week – the detection of embryonic or fetal cardiac activity, appens in average after 6 weeks of pregnancy .
But France don’ t had the US problem
Abd From a man born in 1976 and much more closer to Moscow – (2 847 km by road about 1 769 miles ) causes of the collapse of soviet Union are
1) Inefficient and corrupt economy with an awareness of this in the general population
2) Disappearance of the fear of the red army which struggles against goat breeders , Afghanistan.
It had accelerated the processus by about 20 years.
3) Lack of consumables in a population wanting to join the consumer society…
this cause are visible since the 70’s , and only the fear of red army glued soviet union together…
The soviet deployment begin in 1979 prior to Reagan election on November 4 1980… and Afghan Mujahideen victory occured in 1989 during George H. W. Bush mandate January 20, 1989 – January 20, 1993…
Yes Ragan had contibuted to an earlier colapse of Soviet Union but the prices was the training of the general staff of Al-Queda and ISIS , leading to the stranglehold of Muslim fanatic in Algeria since 1992 , 09-11-2001 – Osama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden was trained by CIA for use against the Soviets -…
Did you had any clue about one of recent US military blunder : United States invasion of Grenada in 1983 -operation urgent fury- a Reagan Idea
And one question who is the most desirable neighbor for the Little Diomede Island – US territory Alaska – Putin president for life or czar of Russia , or Gorbachev President of the Soviet Union ?
Gorbachev didn’t strike me as nuclear threat premature ejaculator.
And he never wanted Alaska back… unlike Putin.
a little further than that, really-the establishment has always been mostly comprised of people who think Government is a good thing, that MORE government is a better thing, and that, frankly, the general public is a mindless mass that must be guided. It’s just that this is ALSO the mindset of the American Left (everywhere, that is, except the bedroom).
Take two kids of roughly equal talent and ability, aka equal potential. One of them, is inclined to desire centralized power and top-down authority, the other, does not. Guess which one is going to take a civil service exam, all other factors being equal, in hopes of getting a government job.
(Hint: it’s the first kid, the one who likes central, top-down, authority). The other one’s going to go into the private sector as their FIRST choice.
from there, you get a few years down the line and both of them are, in their respecitve environments, in a position to interview hiring candidates.
Employment counselors at the temp agency will encourage you to mirror the speech , mannerisms, and phrasing of a hiring interviewer-because that’s going to get them to like you and want to hire you. That’s proven technique. So what happens? it’s not a conspiracy, it’s the natural progression of things. A leftist is far more likely to hire a fellow leftist even if they’re not the most qualified applicant-as long as they’re adequately close to qualified.
do this for a few generations and you end up with a ‘civil service’ that seeks to be your civil masters and absolutely denies it to themselves.
You wouldn’t describe a typical CEO as a central, top-down authority?
I’d say that majority of people don’t have a problem with hierarchy, just where they fall in it. Rare is the person who rejects the question “Who should rule?”
im not american. and i reject your redefinition of left and right. if you are the establishment, and desire to expand the influence of the establishment, you are right wing. that the entire basis of the left and right before us centric corpo media makes a mess of it.
What, Sidney is JUST figuring this out? Way to buy a clue , girl.
“I will let you being dangerous to us because it’s part of who you are” is a dumb thought. You get to be unique so long as it doesn’t effect anyone else.
I’m kind of with everybody in the comments that Lapha is full of shit in this, and I’ll get to what I view as comparative scenarios in a bit. Anyway, Aetholiths are neither banned, nor are their powers restricted simply for being different, and this is something the comic has been onboard with from very early on: powers are fine, crimes are illegal. Lapha isn’t getting a power damper (IIRC, Dave has confirmed there will be no direct power damping effects) equivalent because she has power, it’s purely because she has committed a crime and the tools used render her less able to do harm. Her fellow Aetholith did NOT receive a power damper of any kind because she had not shown herself to be intent on harm, even though by her nature she had the same power danger rating and type. While Lapha is probably going to be pleadeal’d (a very different topic), I would assume she would otherwise receive whatever trial is equivalent for non-Terrans (my assumption is that there are lawyers champing at the bit to set precedent) and that every one else’s comparison to handcuffs is accurate: handcuffed people complaining that they can’t use a first aid kit are SOL.
Various scenarios I can think of relating to this:
The Pentagon will likely have whatever equivalent to a psycher blocking field they can get their hands on and will tell any psycher races to eat shit if they complain about it. And I would say anybody that has one, assuming it’s not equivalent to a radio jammer where it fires high volume noise in all directions, would also be allowed to use them as they like.
The FAA will likely have to update some rules relating to individual flight, although I would assume that anyone attempting to be a Flying Brick Express would still be required to register flight plans and similar, and flyers would be required to steer clear of airports.
I think a mana nullification field (assuming such is available in this verse), which would be lethal to an Aetholith and probably a wide variety of other races with high magic integration would be used for the same reason as the proposed psycher blocking field, although that would certainly require some signage, same as electrified fences with similar levels of legal responsibilities.
Hm, depending on the nature of the magic in question, cursing people guilty of battery to never be able to hold weapons (even if not a case of Aw/aDW) would be viable (depending on magical availability and such, verse restrictions, etc) and would be vaguely similar to this? I am very curious if Dabbles has offered such a service, it would certainly make for an interesting shift in crime and punishment scenarios if people could be restricted from something without requiring locking them away in a fully governed environment. Not that I think Dabbler would ever give a government a curse stamp of some kind.
I’m fairly certain that the FAA has already addressed this.
Maxima and Sydney are military aircraft equivalents.
Dave has chosen not to show them phoning for flight clearance before taking off.
Sydney can fly to her shop anytime she likes as long as she’s under 400 feet and 120 mph.
“Dave has chosen not to show them phoning for flight clearance before taking off.”
This is how Sydney figures out air traffic. And I’m pretty sure that Sydney’s wrist-com also has a transponder in it so airports know where they are as well if they’re near a flight path.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-352-superman-never-has-to-file-a-flight-plan/
No, DaveB said there were no universal power-dampeners, not that there weren’t any power-dampeners
I’m thinking of the ones you snap around their wrist/neck and they can’t use their powers* that you’ll occasionally see in Marvel/DC used with authorial fiat. I do think that Dabbles could probably come up with some kind of magical doodad that compared power outputs of normie humans and whatever it’s detecting and exert a counterforce. That assumes that superpowers aren’t mana based or fueled since there’s apparently some kind of magical goings on with super DNA.
* How a power dampener knows the difference between ‘a power’ and ‘anatomy that spits acid’ is something most writers are too lazy to settle on. The one in Civil War that they slapped on Wolverine that worked on his regeneration but didn’t remove the use of his claws comes to mind, and was actually a fun subversion since it only worked on active powers but not on the anatomical results of his mutation (see: X-men 2(?) with Beast having his hair disappear when he got near the power damping child).
Yeah, those are the crap DaveB said weren’t in the GrrlVerse: any damperner would have to be customized for the individual
Not saying that there aren’t some that can be used on multiples without being calibrated, just not any that can be used on all
I like the fact you’ve thought this through, and I agree with most of your points. However, I don’t think they’d have passive power-jamming of any sort, partly because there probably isn’t such a thing available/it would require resources they don’t have, and partly so that *their own* people can use their powers.
I’m thinking the pentagon would more likely have the psychic/magic equivalent of an airgap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gap_(networking)
Psyker/magic shielding is likely somewhat available on Earth through the veiled fantasy races. I believe the assumption is that mana based technology and magic is just widely available elsewhere. But, that’s always an issue when you have magic or superscience; anyone can theoretically pick the stuff up. I did like the way Wearing The Cape covered it tho.
I think the joke of the page is that she is obviously full of it and that calling racism will not, in fact, get her out of this situation.
There is a wide and interesting canonical variety of mana dampening:
(shown during the vault assault)
the weakness field(dampens all unshielded equally),
the mana sucking puppets(depowers even strong casters, but individually),
magic countering spikes(break spells).
Sydney’s shield(“nothing gets through mister bubble” from either side).
Magic resistance(Dabbler’s resistance to the weakness aura)
We’ve yet to encounter an effective psychic.
It makes perfect sense to turn Lapha into a closely monitored asset though, they can’t let her go with her knowledge & imprisoning her for life wouldn’t just be very expensive, but also probably very much unconstitutional and/or otherwise against the US law, had Sydney died Lapha could have received life sentence of even death penalty, but since she didn’t it’s 20 years to what ever the US attorney can convince the federal court to slap Lapha with for kidnapping, maximum of 3 years for impersonation of federal officer, no less than 30 years for illegal possession of a destructive device (at least two of Sydney’s orbs should qualify), and aggravated assault and battery could get her another 20 years (threatening to leave Sydney as an empty shell)
73 (or the very least 50 for kidnapping and the firearm charge(s) even without the other charges sticking-) years may be a lot for humans, but Lapha could very well be able to do that much time & still be a threat afterwards, so life sentence or death penalty would be the only realistic options, and her crimes so far don’t qualify for that, I guess the US government COULD send her to Gitmo, but that would backfire spectacularly in very short order.
Okay going over this post a bit…
“It makes perfect sense to turn Lapha into a closely monitored asset though,”
I agree with you here entirely. And plus narratively it hopefully means more watching Lapha and Garamm in the comic in the future.
“they can’t let her go with her knowledge”
Lapha’s knowledge is restricted to what Sydney know by that point in time, which isnt much. Sydney’s main ‘top secret’ knowledge that she has is about the existence of aliens, the capabilities so far of some of the orbs, and that her tech might be Nth Tech (a guess by Cora).
1) Lapha knows about the existence of aliens. She is an alien. Also the Earth knows about aliens now as well, so that’s no longer top secret information.
2) Lapha blurting out the Nth tech thing was televised, and even had it not been, there were a bunch of humans and aliens and demons in the area who heard her say it already. That information is ALREADY out as well.
3) The only powers that are restricted clearance for others to know are the capabiliites of the comm orb, the atmosphere orb (which most of Galytn knows now anyway), and the remaining ‘unknown orb.’ The Xevoarchy already knows that someone on Earth can make Aetherium Causeways or whatever they’re called, and it’s not a huge leap to realize it’s Sydney.
Sydney simply doesn’t actually have a lot of top secret info for Lapha to take in the first place, other than mostly stuff that Lapha already knew (aliens/etc) and the Nth tech guess, which is already out in the open to a bunch of demons, aliens and humans who did NOT do any criminal action. Not to mention it’s still a guess.
So there really isnt that much knowledge that would be considered ‘top secret’ to worry about – mostly just Sydney knowledge (up to this point in time only).
“& imprisoning her for life wouldn’t just be very expensive, but also probably very much unconstitutional and/or otherwise against the US law,”
A life sentence? Yes that would be unconstitutional for attempted kidnapping/attempted human trafficking. Imprisonment for a lesser period of time would not be, though.
“had Sydney died Lapha could have received life sentence of even death penalty,”
Correct. She didnt so there’s no death penalty or even life sentence. Even if the prosecution was to try to argue it was attempted murder (which it wasnt), attempted murder is not a death penalty or a life sentence (federal sentence is a MAXIMUM of 20 years in federal prison).
“but since she didn’t it’s 20 years to what ever the US attorney can convince the federal court to slap Lapha with for kidnapping,”
Somewhat correct. UP to 20 years.
“maximum of 3 years for impersonation of federal officer,”
She was not impersonating a federal officer. There was absolutely no ‘impersonating’ happening.
“no less than 30 years for illegal possession of a destructive device (at least two of Sydney’s orbs should qualify),”
That is not a thing. Also Lapha at no point in time possessed the orbs. Even when she was possessing Sydney, they wouldn’t let her touch them – they obey Sydney’s mind, not Lapha’s mind.
“and aggravated assault and battery could get her another 20 years”
Aggravated assault and battery COULD get 20 years, but more likely it would be a maximum of 3 years since there was no actual damage done to Sydney (aside from ruining her prescription).
“(threatening to leave Sydney as an empty shell)”
This is an attempted charge, not the completion of that charge or even trying to do it and being stopped while she was doing it.
Most of the sentences people are coming up with would have to assume that she successfully commited the crime, rather than a failed attempt. The only instance where I could possibly argue a life imprisonment would be hostage taking (18 USC sec 1203 and the International Covention Against the TAking of Hostages.)
“73 (or the very least 50 for kidnapping and the firearm charge(s) even without the other charges sticking-)”
I’m not sure what firearm charge you’re even referring to that would be 30 years, but in any case, she did not have any firearms, even if you consider the orbs to be firearms. IT’s mainly the kidnapping that would get the sentence of 20 years, and maybe a few extra years for assault and battery (Sydney did have SOME sort of physical damage done to her, but she’d have to admit it and that might make her have to admit the whole glasses thing fixed the problem).
“That is not a thing”, uhh, yes it is
18 U.S. Code § 924 – Penalties
“…
(b)Whoever, with intent to commit therewith an offense punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, or with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that an offense punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year is to be committed therewith, ships, transports, or receives a firearm or any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(c)
(1)
(A)Except to the extent that a greater minimum sentence is otherwise provided by this subsection or by any other provision of law, any person who, during and in relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime that provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which the person may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries a firearm, or who, in furtherance of any such crime, possesses a firearm, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime—
(i)be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 5 years;
(ii)if the firearm is brandished, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 7 years; and
(iii)if the firearm is discharged, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years.
(B)If the firearm possessed by a person convicted of a violation of this subsection—
(i)is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or semiautomatic assault weapon, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years; or
(ii)is a machinegun or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 30 years.”
“18 U.S. Code § 924 – Penalties”
No offense, and I’m going to try to say this in a way that is not insulting, but is just using dry facts… but that is a horribly incorrect interpretation of that law. The first underlying part is for for major illegal arms and drug trafficking. Not just having or using a weapon illegally (note the part that says ‘in interstate of foreign commerce).
The second part is for drug trafficking or crimes of violence, as an additional sentence to an already existing crime. Which Lapha did not do with any weapon.
The third part says 5 years, not 30.
The part that says 30 years is for arms or drug trafficking which involves using a machine gun or destructive device (ie, grenades, bombs, etc) for firearms with silencers while in the act of receiving or shipping any ammunition of firearms in commerce illegally.
It really has nothing to do with what you think.
And, to steelman your position, even if it DID (which it doesn’t), Lapha never even was able to touch the PPO (which is the only orb that could be argued to be similar to a machine gun. Even though it’s not a machine gun. Or a bomb. Even though it’s not a bomb. Or a grenade. Even though it’s not a grenade.
But lets say, for a moment, that for some reason, a judge decided that the PPO the same thing as a machine gun and fits the category of 18 USC 924 (c)(1)(B)(ii). Just to give you the strongest possible position you can hold.
It still doesn’t fit what Lapha did. Because:
1) No interstate or foreign commerce occurred with the firerarm, which is the underlying crime necessary for that additional sentence.
2) Lapha literally never touched the weapon, let alone used it in a crime of violence or drug trafficking. She was incapable of doing so.
3) There was no shipping, transporting, or receiving of a firearm or any ammunition. She didn’t even move from the spot from when she possessed Sydney.
And all those reasons are assuming the rest of what you said about the orbs was correct in a court of law.
“major illegal arms and drug trafficking.” Uh, Pander… she was going to traffick in MAJOR illegal arms. As in, Sydney’s body and those ioun stones of hers.
Sydney is not ‘illegal arms.’ Nor are her orbs. Nor are any supers illegal arms. People are not ‘arms’ or ‘weapons’ as a definition. That would be like saying a special forces soldier or Mike Tyson are illegal arms just because they are capable of extreme violence or killing.
And the orbs are not illegal – even the PPO which is the only one that could remotely be defined as ‘arms.’
Are you kidding? “Metahuman trafficking” has been a thing in multiple franchises. It was Francis’ scheme in Deadpool 1. It was a major plot point in season 3 of Young Justice.
To use your own analogy, it would be like saying a special forces soldier WHO HAD BEEN KIDNAPPED AND FITTED WITH MIND CONTROL DEVICES was illegal arms. Which he would be, on top of being a victim of kidnapping and human trafficking.
And the orbs are not illegal – but they are extremely powerful artifacts which a lot of factions wouldn’t hesitate to kill for.
She was planning to, but she never got anywhere close to carrying that plan out
Are you going to arrest someone for jaywalking when they stop in the middle of the sidewalk and look across the street?
There’s a number of crimes that are quite literally just “planned to, but never carried out.” They’re referred to as “criminal conspiracy.” The plan itself is the crime. Conspiracy to defraud, conspiracy to murder, conspiracy against rights. All that’s really needed is to an “actus reus,” a guilty act that confirms that it wasn’t just idle talk, but a genuine plot.
To use a recent example: the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping case. She was never kidnapped, but the kidnappers certainly PLANNED to. And the reason the conspirators weren’t convicted is because the bulk of them were FBI agents who were guilty of entrapment. The “actus reus,” the active training, acquisition of equipment, etc, were performed by the FBI agents and informants; without their involvement, it would have simply been a bunch of guys grousing about the governor.
Um, what? A brief search says of the 14 who were arrested, only 5 were acquitted, with the other 9 being convicted. The FBI has admitted to having 3 informants and 2 undercover agents, and while there may have been more than they were willing to admit to, that’s still far fewer than “the bulk of them”.
Yes, a number of them were convicted of lesser offenses. The prosecution and its backers did everything possible to nail them, so they could scream, “These evil terrorists were caught by us, so vote for us in the next election!”
However, in spite of the informants being involved in literally every aspect of the scheme – including its INCEPTION, meaning there never would have been a plot if it wasn’t for the FBI – the continued politically motivated pressure resulted in several people being found guilty of things like “Materially aiding a terrorist and gang membership,” a few pleading guilty in the hopes of escaping worse punishment, and my personal favorite: the dude who was found guilty of “possessing an unregistered destructive device” that the FBI gave him.
In other words, the same thing was done to the “kidnappers” that was done to Islamic American citizens during the 00s. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/16/fbi-entrapment-fake-terror-plots
Umm, I would remind you that she was an admitted part of a slaving organization that by default engaged in kidnapping and murder. She wasn’t a new recruit either so if her compatriots sell her out then yes she commited several capital crimes. Regardless of wether she committed them on Earth or not.
She could try to argue jurisdiction but that would just result in her going to the ICJ and slaving is a capital crime for them.
She’s completely cooked.
“Umm, I would remind you that she was an admitted part of a slaving organization that by default engaged in kidnapping”
And that would be where the 20 years comes in. Not life imprisonment or the death penalty.
“and murder.”
No murder was committed. At all.
“She wasn’t a new recruit either so if her compatriots sell her out then yes she committed several capital crimes”
But nothing which would get a life sentence or the death penalty. It was all attempted kidnapping and assault (no battery technicailly for Maxima). No matter what her compatriots say, it’s not going to get her life imprisonment or the death penalty. The maximum penalty for kidnapping is 20 years. And she didn’t even get to do that to completion with Maxima, and it’s arguable that she didn’t get to do that with Sydney either. Bodynapping (as opposed to kidnapping, which requires her to actually have successfully kidnapped the person), at least on Earth, is not a thing yet. She is guilty of attempted kidnapping and assault on a federal officer. Hence the 20 years thing in federal prison as a max sentence.
“Regardless of wether she committed them on Earth or not.”
Nope. Any crime committed off Earth would not be something that she could be charged with by any Earth government (except I suppose the Council because of their liaison with the Xevoarchy from the alien representative). So what she did with Tenri is definitely going to have jurisdictional issues for Earth. Whereas what she attempted with Maxima and with Sydney on two separate occasions are definitely under the jurisdiction of the United States, since they took place here, the victim was here, and the defendant (Lapha) did the crime here.
“She’s completely cooked.”
Never said she wasn’t, but not for a life imprisonment sentence or a death sentence.
Destructive Device is, per the definition rattling around my brain, the catchall term the ATFE uses for weapons more powerful (by muzzle energy I think?) than .50 BMG such as anti-material rifles. IIRC the history of such crimes, the weapon(s) in question tends to be an object of value, not a method of murder/violence itself as they absurdly inconvenient and difficult to conceal.
This is what destructive device means according to the USC.
(4) The term “destructive device” means— (A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas— (i) bomb, (ii) grenade, (iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, (iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (v) mine, or (vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses; (B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and (C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term “destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 7684(2), 7685, or 7686 of title 10
The orbs (even the PPO, which is the actual weapon orb) do not qualify for the definition.
Your forgetting about New York and the attempt on kidnapping Max as well as her actions lead up to the damages to the street and such. In court those charges could be added as well, terrorism on foreign soil isn’t a 3 year sentence. Plus her and Garamm stole an escape pod from the ship… the charges are piling up!
I am not forgetting that and specifically mentioned it in my post. And it was not terrorism and does not meet the legal definition of terrorism.
And the ship escspe pod (which they used after Lapha’s bodyvwas eaten and Garamm escaped with her) belonged to Ray, not anyone from Earth. So have the space courts deal with that instead of American courts and save the problems caused by jurisdiction and improper venue for that one.
Off visual, but if Sydney had used her access of Lapha’s previous activities, there would be multiple separate Kidnapping/ attempted kidnapping of Maxima charge to add. Possibly other criminal activities as well, to remand the prisoner to, after term on Earth had expired.
By obtaining Sydney’s memories and having patriotic allegiance to demon society(yes not all demons are in league with Tom, but nobody has send a memo containing that a list of Tom alleged demons to homeland security, so adminstratively they are until proven otherwise) she has been upgraded to “high profile hostile spy”.
That puts options on the table like:
life long travel bans, presidential death warrants(yes those exist), military courts.
So, what’s stopping Daphne from being charged with that offense? She is passing on classified information to SmugD, and SmugD owns Tom and his demonic legion
Probably because Daphne is doing it with the permission and awareness of her superiors at ARCHON as a triple agent.
They know some of what she’s doing, doubt they know (or care to) all of it
And what happens if Daphne gets bored with working with ARCHON?
See how slippery slopes can get when you want things to go your way? Meant the ‘general you’ not the specific ‘Pander You’
“They know some of what she’s doing, doubt they know (or care to) all of it
And what happens if Daphne gets bored with working with ARCHON?”
That’s an assumption, but nothing in the story actually leads to that being true. I’m just basing what I said on what’s actually happened in the comic so far. And we do know that Maxima knows what Daphne is doing, and it’s with her official approval (in order to keep an eye on Deus, although they don’t realize that Deus realizes this as well).
“Meant the ‘general you’ not the specific ‘Pander You’”
Yes I figured that :)
luckily sentences aren’t passed based on “it could have gone this way”, or at least I bloody hope, or all violent crimes would instantly become Manslaughter.
Exactly
No Sydney… you aren’t the bad guys…. you are something far, far, FAR worse…. you are a government stooge.
Government “stooges” (way to pick a loaded term that smuggles in all of your desired negative premises) aren’t automatically “bad” either, just like alien “Supers” aren’t automatically bad. The key issue is exactly the same in both cases — with great power comes great responsibility(P.Parker), and great ability to do harm if not used wisely.
Being a “bad guy” only happens when it’s used poorly, not simply from being in a position to apply such power.
In short, no, not ACAB.
That is possibly the stupidest thing I have heard today.
Just like how Edward Elric was a ‘dog of the military’.
I have pretty significant libertarian leanings (little ‘l’ – the big ‘L’ Libertarian Party is largely druggies and nutters), I (along with a majority of Americans today) think the FBI is corrupt and acting as an agent of one political party more than agents of the state, I can point out actual horrible and criminal behaviour by the US government that is fully public and well-documented, and even I think your claim there is way over the top.
If I may ask, which party do you think the FBI works for, and why do you believe that?
Better a stooge than a terrorist.
Then again, so many in the US on all sides think that is the ‘proper’ way to run politics these days.
*shrug*
I’m just waiting for them to attack my family then we shall see who understands fear better.
Given that she’s probably committed more crimes off earth, I severely doubt Maxima has the authority to just forcibly draft her like that.
Unless Earth has some sort of extradition treaty she’s not going anywhere. Earth has her and unless whatever government bodies that want her are willing to send a ship Maxima can’t blast to bits or try and trade for her there’s no reason to expect that she’s going to get given up. Planetary and National sovereignty must be enforced if you expect others to take it seriously.
Which is what said last page: Dirt can do whatever the fuck it wants, because there isn’t a power in the Universe (or maybe just the Galaxy?) that can stop them
I’m sure there are. The main reason Lapha’s team failed so hard was they had NO intel on super capabilities, let alone Maxima’s capabilities. But I’m sure that in the galaxy, there are aliens who can pose a significant threat, not to mention the Xevocracy.
That being said, they just generally don’t deal with pre-FTL planets in the first place. The trade of the Fel ship for a starter FTL ship was a unique deal that doesnt typically happen with pre-FTL worlds.
That’s because most FTL-capable ships that visit a pre-FTL world don’t get a hole blown through them from a single individual using their own abilities and not an external device
Yup.
Earth is the equivalent of Somalia with a squad of F-35s. Just because Earth has a couple hundred supers doesn’t mean you can’t hit it with a couple of near-light-speed projectiles.
We have not seen the potential of many of the supers of Earth to potentially defend against near C projectiles. We have seen the commercialization of shady acquired tech Defense shields, by a Super Intelligent one with the foresight to consider that threat, with a shopping cart of dangerous vault stolen artifacts. Creating network bonds for at least an alliance against greater enemies. Connections with Advanced Refugees, and Tom may exponentially extend potential outward defense potential as well, while still maintaining the ability to call in a Favor from ARCHON, and the others of power Hidden by the Veil.
Weird that they weren’t concerned about planetary sovereignty when they were kidnapping her accomplice
That ^ as well
Wait are you talking about when the Awesome Space Captain* went and pointed guns at the lizard guy? Everyone knows ASCes do whatever they want regardless of what local or not-so-local laws say or imply.
*ASCes may not be awesome, in fact a bunch of them are dicks. However, they tend to carry large amounts of weapons, have an annoying tendency to not die when they should, and can and will cause Problems for anyone they are annoyed at, such as someone calling them a dick.
I feel like the main thing that nukes Lapha’s argument is that they’re just doing it to LAPHA.
Lapha has demonstrated she will use this capacity maliciously, she gets locked down.
Hannibal Lector has demonstrated he can and WILL bite, he gets the face mask.
What’s happened to Lapha isn’t much different from why we put some people in straitjackets. It doesn’t mean we’re bigoted against people with ARMS.
It’s not speciesist “normalization”. It’s “body arrest”.
:)
The proper response to a tired racism claim should have been an immediate stomp to her already hurt tail and a reminder that executing her is a perfectly acceptable alternative.
except none of her crimes on US soil carry a death sentence, not even life sentence, and Lapha, thanks to Sydney’s memories, knows this, AND she probably also knows that ACLU and Amnesty International would be providing her with an army of lawyers if the US military ever even hinted at having her executed.
im sure stealing a weapon of mass destruction counts for terrorist charges (because sydney IS a weapon of mass destruction) and posesion of highly clasified information is the kind of thing that gets you send to a black site
honestly 20 years is to generous
her civil rights lawyers wouldn’t even break a sweat arguing that charge down to illegal possession of destructive device(s)
yes. if she only committed earth crimes. however during the attempted abduction of maxima a few chapters back it was also hinted that what she did to Sydney is illegal on an intergalactic scale. so if she doesn’t want to be punished on earth then they could just hand her over to Cora.
Yeah, and when did Dirt join the Xenogeny (or whatever the fuck the Space Police calls itself)?
“however during the attempted abduction of maxima a few chapters back it was also hinted that what she did to Sydney is illegal on an intergalactic scale.” that’s besides the point, Lapha is a major threat to US national security & as she is in US federal custody I am fairly certain that the US government would rather declare war on the Xevoarchy than hand her over to them, so her crimes outside of US are literally irrelevant, and as none of her crimes on US soil carries death penalty, I stand behind my point about an army of civil rights lawyers materializing virtually out of thin air the minute a federal agent threatens her with extrajudicial execution (because, you know, she literally can’t be sentenced to death by a US court, terrorism charges would be quite tricky to get to stick since she didn’t manage to DO anything terroristic before being subdued, Amnesty would probably get her a lawyer the minute “terrorism” is added to her charges, if only because of US government’s track record regarding treatment of terror suspects, and the second that lawyer caught wind of a verbal threat of extrajudicial execution…)
I’m sure Earth would put declaring war on the Xevoarchy at the bottom of any list of things they can do. The Xevoarchy probably has the capability heating the Earth up by a couple of hundred degrees, which would solve the problem nicely from their POV
Nope. First of all, see here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/espionage Lapha has acquired high-level top secret information, and was clearly prepared to sell that to the highest bidder, as well as Sydney herself. Ergo, she’s eligible for the death penalty, or a lesser sentence up to life imprisonment, in the US.
She isn’t eligible for the death penalty. She was trying to kidnap a super, not gather secret information and transfer that information to another organization. There is no mens rea necessary for a charge of espionage. Attempted kidnapping is not a death penalty sentence. At least by US laws. Maybe not by Council laws or Xevoarchy laws, but I don’t think the Xevoarchy sentence for what Lapha did would be death there either, from what DaveB said about Dabbler’s ‘variation’ on the punishment for what Lapha did.
Heck, even black market slavery and human trafficking are not death penalty sentences (criminal penalties for human trafficking and slavery is 20 years in prison and a fine (19 USC sec 1589). I believe the only time it’s even a life sentence is when it’s sex trafficking of children (18 USC sec 1591) with a minimum sentence of 10 years and a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.
In any case, it’s pretty much what I guessed and had hoped would happen – they’re going to have Lapha on a type of work release program (under strict supervision). Harsher than the deal with Jabberwokky. I’m hoping they’ll also have a deal with Garamm as well.
I’d be shocked if she didn’t routinely ransack her victims’ memories and sell off the juicy bits to anyone she can.
Most potential victims don’t have superpowers so she’d be normally looking for information and access.
And the government could likely bring in witnesses from off-planet to testify to that.
“Most potential victims don’t have superpowers so she’d be normally looking for information and access”
The whole point of Lapha and her mercenaries coming to a backwater planet like Earth (technologically speaking) is entirely to capture a super, not for information and access to the United States’ national defense secrets. She did not do what you are describing.
“And the government could likely bring in witnesses from off-planet to testify to that.”
Um… who? And when did she do anything like what you’re describing, and how are you using this assumption as absolute fact when it’s just conjecture?
Pander, lemme go through my thought-process, here. I know you know your $#!^, so I’d be happy for your further perspective….
If a criminal enterprise were to kidnap, say, an official in the State Dept, with the intent of auctioning said individual to the highest bidder on the global black market, even if potential bidders included folks who just wanted a new manservant or sex slave, then I’d say that was a pretty straightforward case of espionage. Even without the Nth Tech factor, Sydney herself is a literal basket of government secrets–the existence of the Council, the functions of several of her orbs, various details about her teammates, and ARChon’s inner workings. So I’d think that any attempt to auction her (or Max, for that matter) off to some foreign/alien power would still qualify for the espionage charge.
“If a criminal enterprise were to kidnap, say, an official in the State Dept, with the intent of auctioning said individual to the highest bidder on the global black market, even if potential bidders included folks who just wanted a new manservant or sex slave, then I’d say that was a pretty straightforward case of espionage.”
Okay a couple of thing about this part of your post:
1) What you are describing in your scenario is not espionage at all (let alone a ‘pretty straightforward case of espionage’) – it’s human trafficking and slavery. Espionage involves getting information or someone for their information, not just as a sex slave or manservant (can’t believe I used the word ‘just’ there, given how horrible human trafficking is). If a criminal enterprise kidnapped a person who had no real top secret info beyond what was publicly known already, not sure how it would be espionage.
2) Espionage is the crime of spying or secretly watching a person, company, government, etc. for the purpose of gathering secret information or detecting wrongdoing, and to transfer such information to another organization or state. If anything, Lapha’s main problem is that she DOESNT do that before trying her plans. Both times, she has gone in to attempt to kidnap a super without bothering to do any of that gathering of information. She’s not a spy – she’s a mercenary/private soldier. Although ARCHON seems like they’ll be using her AS a spy for others, since… she sort of sucks as a mercenary at least from what we’ve seen, but her abilities WOULD make her a really good spy if she actually did anything spy-like. Which she hasn’t done. :)
3) In the scenario you presented, the spy would have to be kidnapping the official for their information. Sydney… honestly doesnt have any information that hasn’t already been televised or that hasn’t already been blurted out. And the one thing that was blurted out wasn’t even top secret information – it was a theory that Cora had (who is not a member of ARCHON).
4) For there to be a death penalty attached, the criminal enterprise would have to be attempting to communicate with any foreign government about the United States’ national defense. We do not know who hired Lapha, if anyone did at all. Generally speaking, spies work for other people (governments, companies, etc). For example, X or Chimyriad would be considered spies. They work for the US government, via ARCHON’s ARC-DARK division for intelligence gathering and planting false information, etc. Daphne is working as a spy, as far as her assignment with Deus is concerned, for the same reason.
“Even without the Nth Tech factor, Sydney herself is a literal basket of government secrets”
She really isn’t when you think about it. I will elaborate below
“the existence of the Council,”
Aliens already know about the Council. There’s literally a representative for aliens on the Council. HUMANS do not know about the Council. It’s pretty worthless as information for Lapha.
“the functions of several of her orbs,”
The only orbs which are (or were) classified are the comm orb’s truesight power and the two unknowns.
And there’s a problem with that.
The truesight power was overheard on television news broadcasts already in the aftermath of the Restaurant rumble and fight with Vehemence.
The atmosphere orb was already made public when Sydney used it in Galytn. And just recently during the fight with Brelx’s gang, both of which were seen by others
The final unknown orb being unknown isn’t really much value, given…. the only information Lapha gets from that is… no information at all.
“various details about her teammates,”
The details that Sydney knows about her teammates are pretty much what was also already shown at the very public press conference. Remember that Sydney has not been in ARCHON all that long.
“and ARChon’s inner workings.”
What inner workings is Sydney aware of that would have espionage value?
“So I’d think that any attempt to auction her (or Max, for that matter)”
Maxima would be more arguable to have espionage value, as she has top secret clearance that Sydney does NOT have. But again – it was not successful, and the intent was to kidnap, not espionage.
No, Lapha’s crimes do not qualify as espionage. She is the absolute worst at being a spy, which is odd since her abilities would make her a really good spy if she bothered to use them for spying purposes instead of being a mercenary.
Thanks for that run-down.
I do have a few caveats–I’m pretty sure that during Wikileaks and other similar cases, it was noted that it doesn’t matter if a given secret is ‘out’–if the government says the item is classified, it still is considered classified. So that wouldn’t necessarily be a defense re: stuff that’s been leaked already.
Also, one other key bit that I suspect is classified, to some extent–the various discussions of how/why humans have superpowers at all. Remember, this is a phenomenon unique to humanity–various alien races have abilities that, by Earth standards, would be considered ‘powers’, but those are racial packages. The smorgasbord approach to power-possession is a key reason why Maxima and co are considered targets at all.
Finally, some of your comments are directed at the fact that she failed to achieve specific objectives (such as controlling the orbs) or even more broadly her competence as a spy. For espionage, would such failure constitute an actual defense? I’m not sure there’s an ‘attempted espionage’ charge the way there is for many violent crimes–the attempt would be considered sufficient to the charge, regardless of the success or failure of the attempt.
Let me ask this–would stealing a new top-secret stealth drone while it was being transported across the country, and putting that up on the black market, qualify as ‘espionage’ under the act? It feels like it should–and since she clearly expected to be able to take the orbs (which, again, have classified functions), that seems like a fairly strong parallel.
“I do have a few caveats–I’m pretty sure that during Wikileaks and other similar cases, it was noted that it doesn’t matter if a given secret is ‘out’–if the government says the item is classified, it still is considered classified.”
Incorrect. Once a secret is already out to the public, is by definition can no longer be considered classified (except insofar as the person who RELEASED the information without authorization can be considered to have released classified information). Classified information is material that a government body deems to be sensitive information that must be protected. If it’s already public, then it cannot, by definition, be protected from the non-government agents with the appropriate security clearance knowing it.
“So that wouldn’t necessarily be a defense re: stuff that’s been leaked already.”
It definitely would be a defense. In fact, it’s an absolute defense.
“Also, one other key bit that I suspect is classified, to some extent–the various discussions of how/why humans have superpowers at all. ”
The information which they only found out because of a foreign (non-U.S.) government told them a sample of? That doesn’t seem classified either, since Galytn and the US do not have any sort of alliance yet. I mean maybe Deus would have been able to claim it’s classified, but he didn’t seem to mind telling people either, including alluding to it in a televised interview of Macroeconomics.
“Remember, this is a phenomenon unique to humanity–various alien races have abilities that, by Earth standards, would be considered ‘powers’, but those are racial packages.”
Based on what Deus said, super abilities might also be racial packages for humans. At least some humans. Much like some humans might have other genetic traits which lend themselves to different abilities – prodigies, people who are unable to feel pain (CIPA – Congenital insensitivity to pain and anhydrosis), ACTN3 (the super-sprinter variant, which controls fast-twitch muscle fibers), hDEC2 (people who are totally energized from four hours or less sleep – ie, short sleepers), Fatal familian insominia (FFI) where a person is unable to ever sleep at all (there was a guy on the show ‘5 Days’ who had it, which is the only reason he didnt die from the disease that killed most of Earth when people fell asleep), LRP5 (a genetic variant where people have practically unbreakable bones – the opposite of the brittle bone disease), etc.
Supers have some genetic predisposition to be able to access a ‘superion field’ in their DNA. Although Deus has theorized that it MIGHT be artificial and only a few thousand years old.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1033-field-of-supers/
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1034-rationym/
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1035-keymaster-race/
(and also grrl power 1036 – the unseen tentacle, but if I put 4 links down the post won’t get uploaded)
So yes – only humans get the super gene because humans have some sort of racial (albeit rare) genetic package in their DNA that allows it.
“Finally, some of your comments are directed at the fact that she failed to achieve specific objectives (such as controlling the orbs) or even more broadly her competence as a spy.”
No, that is not what I said at all. Her failure to achieve specific objectives is not why she is not a spy. What she was DOING is why she is not a spy. Her ‘competence’ as a spy (or lack of competence, actually) is because she has never used her racial abilities in a way which would make her an actually useful spy. She is not an intelligence gatherer in any sense of the word (which I said was odd since her racial abilities would make her a REALLY GOOD INTELLIGENCE GATHERER if she was to use them for the purpose which would be natural for her species – sort of the reason why Maxima is going to do just that with her).
“I’m not sure there’s an ‘attempted espionage’ charge the way there is for many violent crimes”
There is. But then you’d need to prove that she had the mens rea to engage in espionage, instead of human trafficking of supers. The latter of which she is ACTUALLY guilty of.
“Let me ask this–would stealing a new top-secret stealth drone while it was being transported across the country, and putting that up on the black market, qualify as ‘espionage’ under the act?”
Yes. But there are a few problems with this scenario as well:
1) Drones are not people. A drone cannot be kidnapped. They can be stolen. But think of the movie ‘The Rock’ – when the soldiers stole the biological warfare agent, it was to use it on a civilian population (or actually to threaten to in order to get some sort of deal and money from the US government if I remember the movie correctly). That was not espionage. It was theft and terrorism (although Lapha did not commit terrorism in this case). What the crime is depends on the particulars of the scenario.
2) In your scenario, the drone is being stolen in order to, I am assuming, be copy its data (since drone technology itself is not classified tech), or maybe reverse engineer the stealth aspect somehow (which would again be data), or used in some way which threatens the national defense of the US (or whichever country that had the drone), which is part of the legal definition for espionage in the law. So in THAT case, it would be considered espionage because the person who was stealing the drone was doing so with the mens rea to steal information in the form of the drone, which has data on it… like stealing a hard drive). The stealth drone in your scenario is the equivalent of a governmental ‘trade secret’ (except it’s government, not private industry), whereas if the stealth drone was patented, the actual information would already be available at the patent office (and just not allowed to legally be copied for a period of time). In which case, if it was a patent, then the information is already publicly available, and thus it can’t be espionage.
Hope that clears things up
3) Lapha’s actual goal was to get Maxima, not Sydney. Sydney was sort of a backup idea that she had at the last moment apparently. And while she wanted to take the orbs (but the PPO is NOT classified, and the only orb that is an actual weapon at all), she never was able to. Even if you were able to argue it was espionage (which it wasn’t), at best it would be attempted espionage (which I think is a maximum of 16 years, not a life sentence).
So…. my main argument is:
(a) it was not espionage. It was attempted human trafficking and attempted kidnapping. Normally, I’d just stop there, but I’m trying to steelman your position in order to break it down more thoroughly.
(b) Even if we were to argue that it was espionage, it would be attempted espionage, not espionage, which has a different sentencing maximum in federal court.
(c) even if it was attempted espionage that she was being charged with, she did not have the mens rea to commit that particular crime.
She is not a US citizen and, in fact, is an enemy combatant who has engaged twice with US military forces.
This does largely, with precedent, mean that she doesn’t actually get a lot of protections US citizens and visitors get.
This, basically.
She ain’t finna see any lawyers, civil rights or otherwise.
Enemy combatant? Who is the US at war with in this scenario?
Although we’re talking about a fictional world, I’m using real world experience and reality. There would be no lawyers, no trial, no protests. Arc-Dark would have a chat with her and then her fears of being locked in a dying body would prove to be valid.
What “real world experience” would that be?
As an Army medic I worked with detainees in Afghanistan. Some went to the big prison where the Red Cross/Red Crescent came and checked everything and tracked each individual, and each one got a representative from the Afghan government and appeared before their court. Others got registered into the system so people were aware the individual had been detained, but they didn’t go to the big prison. Others didn’t get registered, didn’t go to the big prison, and went away with other personnel that weren’t wearing camo. My strong suspicion is that they weren’t taking them to an ice cream parlor for a complimentary sundae and releasing them with a hearty pat on the back afterwards.
So some people went to prison, and others disappeared. I’m not claiming it never happens — what I take issue with is the implication that it’s an exceedingly common event, or routine practice, rather than an aberration. That of course Lapha is just going to be secretly entombed, that’s just how government works.
And some people seem to find it a very short walk from “that’s just how it is” to “that’s how things should be”.
It’s an exceedingly uncommon event for a random combatant, but for really high level threats it’s not exactly a rarity. A threat like her would absolutely be at the level that simply eliminating her would be considered and authorized if she didn’t play ball. While it’s antithetical to how things should work under our constitutional system, someone with highly sensitive information could also be to dangerous to put on trial due to the risks of the information getting out through the trial process. We may have laws like the Classified Information Procedures Act on the books to try to mitigate these risks, but in the event someone with truly critical information was caught before they could pass it on, there is a non-zero chance that they wouldn’t make it to trial.
Although we’re talking about a fictional setting, I’m using real world experience and reality. There would be no lawyers, no trial, no protests. Arc-Dark would have a talk with her and then her fears of being locked in a dying body would prove to be fully justified.
Hah, I knew it, they’re forcibly recruiting her!
I’d make Lapfha earn her old body back. Put her in a bulldozer and have her do community service. What could possibly go wrong?
She might learn how to use a forklift though. Then she would be forklift certified and her power woild be unstoppable.
There’s a big difference between “Now you’re normal” (normative) and “Welcome to the 99%” (descriptive). And Lapha knows this, and is just choosing to ignore it in favor of making a charged argument she hopes might work in her favor.
And of course your right to swing your racial distinctive fist ends where you use it to commit major crimes. The whole point of punishment is that it involves curtailing rights you would otherwise have.
That. Also, you can’t have a society without some normalisation. Being a member of the tribe *is* having stereotype expectations of any other member, to know what you’re likely to get when interacting with them even if you’ve never met.
I’m pretty sure a court would rule that cruel and unusual punishment
“I’m pretty sure a court would rule that cruel and unusual punishment”
Oh, I’m sure you can find a court to do so.
But then, the courts on that particular topic have made all kinds of incredibly stupid and offensively wrong rulings, including ruling that punishments that were literally the “normal” by every meaning of the word were, somehow both “cruel” AND “unusual” (which is the requirement).
Who said anything about her going to court? You guys are awfully naive about how things work.
You’re being awfully presumptuous about DaveB’s plans.
I can’t say you’re wrong – nothing’s happened yet – but you’re still making assumptions.
Racist? No. She has committed serious crimes and has stolen military secrets. She needs to be kept under control and confined. For a human that would mean kept from walking away. For her species it means “unable to walk away or violate the physical and mental integrity of another person.”
Technically it’s xenophobia, not racism.
And we all know that Sydney is a Xenophile in the Phil Foglio comic series sense. (If you’re not an adult, don’t look that one up, please.)
Sorry, Sydney, but you’re 100% wrong here. Lapha attempted to kidnap you, which is a minimum 20 years prison time in the USA. If anything, the wrong being committed here is that she’s being offered the option to NOT go to prison, being offered clemency in exchange for working for the government. Locking her out of her ability to jack bodies is no different in practice than handcuffing a person to prevent them from being able to use their arms effectively, or shackling their ankles to prevent them from running, both widely accepted practices to prevent prisoners from escaping or doing harm to others during transport or court. The fact that she’s a body jacker means not only is she HARDER to contain safely through normal measures, but that any breakout attempt would likely include additional kidnappings, probably to include murdering them to steal government secrets through the simple act of body jacking a government official and prevent them from retaining any of HER secrets.
She also committed other “Serious violent felonies” in the process *of* said attempted kidnapping. Under U.S. law that’s a life sentence.
And since she was prepared to sell Sydney and the intel she has acquired on the alien black market (or whatever it’s called), she’s guilty of espionage: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/espionage Life sentence nothing, that’s a federal death penalty option, right there.
Its human trafficking and slavery, not espionage.
Not to mention the damage in New York was a result of Lapha’s and companies attempt to do the same with Max. So kidnapping and what could be no less than terrorism! I say that because even if Lapha didn’t do it, she started the events that lead up to them. By all rights she should be locked away in a black site with NO chance of parole. If Dabbler has her way, Lapha would be a messy spot in a cell right now. I’m sure Cora and Flix would love to show Max what the unwinder ammo does as well.
“Not to mention the damage in New York was a result of Lapha’s and companies attempt to do the same with Max.”
Most of the damage was technically done by the supers (especially Hench Wench), not Lapha and her group. There are a lot of other reasons in ADDITION to that for what Lapha did in New York would not be considered terrorism btw, which I’ve mentioned elsewhere in another of my FAR too verbose posts.
Lapha comes across the Galo video game series and a scene where Master Chief tells Cortana “you in my head now”*
*Paraphrase
Her codename of C’tana gets turned down.
Nice
Was supposed to be HALO but my typing is crap.
“This is C’tana She’s got my back. And my front, because she bodyjacked me. Help!”
Its mean to be regressive.
Every crime is a new (job) opportunity.
I mean, the laser eyes metaphor would make sense, except, you aren’t arresting that guy for HAVING laser eyes, you’re doing it for USING HIS LASER EYES ON PEOPLE. There is a massive difference. Yeah, there’s a certain amount of X-man style ‘you can’t just arrest someone because they have the POTENTIAL to be a problem’, but at the same time, even Magento had to acknowledge at one point that he should probably at least be on trial for his crimes.
Whats her face is talking an awful lot of shit about her uniqueness for someone who just actively literally tried to permanently bodyjack someone and then use them as leverage to bully a major government. Hell, I’d argue what she planned to do to Sydney is orders of magnitude worse than ‘you have to spend some time in prison, pointedly NOT bodyjacking people’
In an early ages and in some nations today kidnapping is a capital crime
It can still be so in the USA under Coker v. Georgia if there is an aggravating second charge to include rape since “she” used the kindnapped persons body for sexual intercoruse with out consent that would probably count. so in effect the sealing her to 1 body is a form of capital punishment.
Who used whose kidnapped body for sexual intercourse?
I would think a strong argument for entering her mind without permission would be akin to rape.
Nope, that was just their memories of their own individual sexcapades burring over to each other. Possessed Sydney did not actually get it on with Garram (or whatever the beefy lizard guy’s name was).
She used Tenri’s body to have sex with Garrum.
Where on earth did you get that from?
If you’re thinking of the events of 1248, that’s clearly Sydney having a dream.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1248-do-aliens-dream-of-astro-sheepazoids/
No she didn’t
Why would she use Tenri’s when she had her own body anyway?
What everyone is missing, is that this is a direct outcome of Lapha’s behavior that manages to NOT involve killing her outright.
It’s not her abilities or lifeformness that’s an issue here, it’s what she’s been DOING with it. This is CONSEQUENCES. Note that the girl whose body she jacked to get close to Halo? yeah, she’s still able to do the body-jumping, not-mortal thing…becasuee she isn’t abusing it, and doesn’t have a personal history of actions showing she WILL abuse it.
The whole ‘race’ thing is a cheap excuse and demonstrates she should probably be sent to the twenty in prison thing directly, given she’s a DEMONSTRATED threat to the autonomy of others.
It’s no more racist than wearing clothes and deodorant. It protects other people from the inherent danger (and squick) of other people.
And how many of those people have their clothing bonded (or worse) to their body in such a way they can’t be removed?
Better question-
How many would WANT that?
I know a few people who are so conservative that they would not change underwear if they could help it. Yes, it gets messy, stinky all of that. Why should THEY care? Not their problem if they gross people out.
For the record? I disagree with such vehemently.
Sydney. You work for the USA Government. How is it a question you still have?
How can Syds and Lapha NOT understand the “ongoing” part? She knows EVERYTHING Syds knows about Earth supers, ARCHON secrets, things she wasn’t meant to know but managed to see because she was one of the big guns who needed to be there, and all that.
The cat miiiight be out of the bag on “Nth TECH OMG!”, but how much of that will be taken as heresay by anyone asking the demonic earwitnesses -if they even bother to mention the incident AT ALL given how badly they got PWNED by a 98 lb weakling.
If the demon punks decide to look weak and spill their story, Earth still might get demonic spies showing up trying to confirm “Nth TECH!” but I dont see anyone launching a battlegroup based on a rumor without spy confirmation, and if any of those spies find Lapha and make a deal for that confirmation? Yes, she is a biiig ongoing risk.
(The angle that worries me is one of the PERSONAL succubi of Tom being commanded to tell every detail of the fight once he hears about it and “Nth TECH OMG! will pop out because that is one of the details and cannot lie around it. A certain Someone with a warband ON EARTH just might try to break contracts and go full ham on Texas…)
A 23% chance that attacking Arc will get you a job offer? In this economy???
Okay, so time to get the chisel and to vandalize the Arc building with my LinkedIn address…
Maxima: “So what’s your super power?”
Me: “Finding loopholes.”
Maxima: “That’s not a super power.”
Me: “Neither is being strong. What makes super strength a super power is just how good you are at being strong.”
Maxima: “You can’t be good enough at finding loopholes for it to be a super power.”
Me: “How long is waiting list of people who have schedules to see you, and who are you, the top Super in the US and tactical military hero, talking to about a job right now, despite them not having an appointment? Now, considering that, wouldn’t my loophole-finding being on super level make more sense?”
Maxima: Deep inhale “Fiiiiine, come with me.”
You’re missing something there. It’s not just finding the loopholes that’s the power. It’s being able to actively make them work on demand that’s the power. Anyone can find a loophole to get an excuse to talk to Maxima if they’re smart enough. Only Mr. LH actually managed to make it happen and turned it into a job interview rather than an instant punch survival test. Thus his power is not finding loopholes. He just BS’s his way thru life at miracle levels.
I love this.
It sort of reminds me of the Domino/Deadpool back and forth “Being lucky is not a superpower!” argument at her job interview.
Human laws don’t recognize rights for non organic life.
She’s being treated like a sentient being on the planet Earth.
If she was treated like a computer she would simply be turned off/deleted as a rogue program or put into an evidence locker
Attempted murder, human trafficking, and slavery are all illegal in the U.S. and being punished accordingly does not make someone the ‘Bad guy’
Being locked in a functional body and serving a relatively normal sentence for those crimes is a better option than death or being put into a lead box and archived to a black box site in perpetuity.
As for racism by skin tone, while Maxima was Caucasian, neither Dabbler nor Maxima have ‘white’ skin. Dabbler also clearly doesn’t care about skin tone as she shifts based on mood/location
There are two Aetholiths in the room at the moment, and the one who respects the bodily autonomy of their fellow beings has not had any restrictions laid on them. Humans can both drink and drive, but we only take away driving privileges if you do both at the same time, or at least don’t wait long enough for the intoxication to go away.
There is nothing wrong with consensual body-riding, morally. Controlling another being’s body with your consciousness is a thing we don’t have enumerated crimes for, but you’re operating very close to rape, by level of violation. It’s not that much of a stretch.
She isn’t being punished for having powers, she’s being punished because she hurt someone with them, premeditated, and it’s aggravated by her continued lack of respect for the consciousnesses of her fellow beings.
Quite frankly, if other societies don’t have restrictions on whose body you’re allowed to occupy, that’s an indictment on them
‘…and memory copying abilities’
Which runs into self incrimination and acting on information the gaining of which most courts would give the stink-eye to. They were worried about the PR backlash of mind control, and they want to add ‘we have the ability to photocopy your entire past’ to the pile?
“Hey, you just did something horribly unethical. Want to do that horribly unethical thing for us?”
Ah, there’s those Operation Paperclip talents America’s agencies are so well known for!
Sometimes, ethical or unethical actions wind up being dependent on the reason for which you are doing the action. Not always, but sometimes.
A sniper shooting a person who’s taken a woman hostage is acting in an ethical manner.
A snipper going onto a bell tower and shooting at innocent civilians is acting in an unethical manner.
Both people are doing the same action, but for different purposes. It’s the purpose that determines the ethics of the situation.
Or, since I want to use pop culture in this post…. there was a TOS Star Trek episode called ‘The Savage Curtain’ in which Kirk and Spock were forced to fight alongside the historical ‘good’ figures of Abraham Lincoln and Surak of Vulcan against four ‘evil’ counterparts – Kahless the Unforgettable of the Klingon Empire, Zora of Tiburon, Genghis Khan of Earth, and Colonel Philip Green (an evil genocidal military officer from 2269), by rock-like aliens who want to understand the concepts of ‘good’ and ‘evil.’
In the end, the rock aliens said that, although the ‘good’ guys won, both good and bad guys used the same methods of attack. Then Kirk asked the aliens about what they offered the bad guys, vs what they offered the good guys.
The bad guys were offere wealth and power. The good guys were offered the release and safety of their crew.
The difference between good and bad (or ethical and unethical actions) is often dependent on the reason for the action.
Not that I’m excusing unethical actions or saying the good guys can’t sometimes do unethical actions and become less ‘good’ (or even become evil – ie, You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain, as Harvey Dent said in The Dark Knight). But there IS some merit to the argument that ethics is rarely solely dependent on the action taken.
Why does almost every page devolve into political bullshittery? No one outside the US gives a shit about the US political parties, doubt many even know which party is which, just one is a dumbo and the other a jackass (doubt many in the US know or care either)
Just… stop with the shit-flinging over which side is the worse because both sides are just as bad as each other
Politics is a pressing matter on many people’s lives, and not just in the USA. They live in fear that the next election could upend, or just plain end, their lives entirely. Authoritarianism is on the rise in many countries around the world, and people’s right to self-determination is at risk, often because other people react to their own feelings of insecurity by attempting to restrict the rights of others. Technology extends our reach, enables our actions to affect many other people, for good or ill, and so conflicts that would otherwise be isolated and die down or otherwise resolved are now felt around the world, collide with others, and are amplified. We’re approaching the point where we’re going to have to face some very difficult questions about coexistence.
And while the rest of the world may not care much about USA politics, the converse is also true: people in the USA don’t think much about the rest of the world. Everyone finds everyone else’s self-centered worldview irritating. So either everyone just shuts up, or everyone just puts up with conversations that don’t interest them. Or, obviously, tries to discourage other people from talking.
So why bring it up in here?
Because the events in the comic, or the author’s commentary, refer to real-world questions on ethics, morality, and law? This is fundamentally a comic about government and a militarized police force, despite the superhero trappings. Debates about whether a particular action is right or wrong are pretty much inevitable.
The power of fiction is in saying “What if?”, to explore real questions from a different perspective, to recast them in a way that avoids triggering people’s ingrained biases and prejudices. It helps us explore not only what’s right and wrong, but why.
And really, this very page has a character trying to claim that restricting their natural abilities is “racist”. You expect everyone in the comments to just completely ignore an emotionally charged topic that the characters in the comic are discussing?
You are working for the military: did you seriously thought you were the goodies?